Song For My Father: triplets
- Reedman1
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Apr 14, 2018
Don’t know if this is the right forum for this question.
I’m working on Horace Silver’s Song For My Father. The first four bars have some fast triplet figures, which are not that big a deal on trumpet or sax, but really tricky on trombone. They can’t all be lipped.
Any thoughts about how best to address these? Possibilities include practicing until perfect, which is unrealistic because these figures don’t lie well on trombone and they’re not really supposed to sound that clean; approximate by playing some of the notes, hopefully with appropriate feel; fudge them; or forget about them. Fifth possibility, I guess, is to mime them… ;)
A similar situation exists in Stanley Turrentine’s Sugar.
Suggestions from the slide mind?
I’m working on Horace Silver’s Song For My Father. The first four bars have some fast triplet figures, which are not that big a deal on trumpet or sax, but really tricky on trombone. They can’t all be lipped.
Any thoughts about how best to address these? Possibilities include practicing until perfect, which is unrealistic because these figures don’t lie well on trombone and they’re not really supposed to sound that clean; approximate by playing some of the notes, hopefully with appropriate feel; fudge them; or forget about them. Fifth possibility, I guess, is to mime them… ;)
A similar situation exists in Stanley Turrentine’s Sugar.
Suggestions from the slide mind?
- PhilTrombone
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Nov 06, 2018
A common way to play this tune is to use a lip slur/fretting technique.
For example, start on middle C in 3rd position, and play the next tone (D) in fourth. No tongue at all. Doing this quickly closely mimics what the other players are doing.
For example, start on middle C in 3rd position, and play the next tone (D) in fourth. No tongue at all. Doing this quickly closely mimics what the other players are doing.
- Reedman1
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Apr 14, 2018
[quote="PhilTrombone"]A common way to play this tune is to use a lip slur/fretting technique.
For example, start on middle C in 3rd position, and play the next tone (D) in fourth. No tongue at all. Doing this quickly closely mimics what the other players are doing.[/quote]
Fret/slur to a 4th position D natural? The tune is in F minor. Does that really work?
For example, start on middle C in 3rd position, and play the next tone (D) in fourth. No tongue at all. Doing this quickly closely mimics what the other players are doing.[/quote]
Fret/slur to a 4th position D natural? The tune is in F minor. Does that really work?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Fast triplets usually call for triple tongue. You should know that technique from trumpet.
You can speed up tonguing using something called Doodle Tongue: use the syllables doo-dle in a sort of double tongue or doo-doo-dle in a sort of triple tongue.
If you need to fret in F minor, try going C in 3 and Db in 5.
You can speed up tonguing using something called Doodle Tongue: use the syllables doo-dle in a sort of double tongue or doo-doo-dle in a sort of triple tongue.
If you need to fret in F minor, try going C in 3 and Db in 5.
- Reedman1
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Apr 14, 2018
Yes, I know about triple tongue and doodle tongue. I don't know that i could execute them fast enough for this situation; I think I would screw up, or it would sound stiff.
The way I'm currently approaching it is to go to 2nd position Db with tongue, then fret out to C and drop a harmonic down to Ab, skipping the Bb. It's a way of fudging it. It sounds more bebop than Latin, but it kind of works. These triplets are fast, and they're totally ornamental. What do you guys think about that?
The way I'm currently approaching it is to go to 2nd position Db with tongue, then fret out to C and drop a harmonic down to Ab, skipping the Bb. It's a way of fudging it. It sounds more bebop than Latin, but it kind of works. These triplets are fast, and they're totally ornamental. What do you guys think about that?
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
I don't remember the notes, but I remember a plain old trombone "lip turn" across partials or "doit" does it. Just make sure to hit the note at the end of the figure on time and in tune and stay in the scale for the first note.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I either don’t play those or simply do a turn which is essentially indistinguishable from articulating each note at that speed.
- Neo_Bri
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Another good way is to play it up the octave. Then you can play it very cleanly. But if you're replacing the tenor, you really do need the lower part.
- Reedman1
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Apr 14, 2018
Thanks! I like baileyman's lip turn and Matt K's suggestions. Neo Bri, I did consider playing it up the octave i.e, an octave above middle C, where it normally is). It might be easier; might not.
I'll try all these ideas. Thanks for your help, everybody.
I'll try all these ideas. Thanks for your help, everybody.
- BrassedOn
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Aug 23, 2018
Up the octave, lippy trills using the longer positions when possible, fast slide movement across the grain even if just approximate gets you by. De dl la kind of tonguing . At first practice metronome slow on eight notes to get the rhythm about right, then relax when you play upto tempo so it sounds light and free like an appoggiatura type ornamentation.