6-1/2 AL used for bass bone

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-07 9:42 a.m.

I am 62 years old and have upper dentures and just came back after not playing for more than 10 years. I have been playing a Yamaha YSL-352 with a Bach 12E, I seem to get better range and good pedal tones with it, better than the 12C. I am going back to bass bone, a YBL-612, and used to play a 1-1/2G. Has anyone successfully played bass bone with smaller mouthpieces? Say the 6-1/2AL or equivalent, or even something smaller like a 7 to 11? Which Bach large shank mouthpiece is the most shallow with the smallest back bore? Would it be the 6-1/2AM? Is a deep and wide cup truly necessary for a full sound?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2023-06-07 9:57 a.m.

You are going to have trouble playing bass trombone with a 6.5AL if you were used to a 1 1/2 G. Common small bass mouthpiece is a 2G. There are "tweener" mouthpieces like the 3G.

You can get a large shank 12C (it's usually labeled 12C with a T underneath) but response on a bass trombone is going to be really weird. Especially in the trigger range.

To find somebody who played bass on a 6.5AL you'd need to go back to Lew Van Haney, who was active in the 1940s.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-06-07 10:12 a.m.

Wide not exactly, but volume and bore/throat, yes. A 12C or 6.5AL with a large shank is not a good fit for bass.

I'm convinced the base "human being" sized rim is actually close to a 3G width rim. Build any piece off that rim, with the right volume cup, throat, and bore, and 90% of people would be in business.

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-07 10:45 a.m.

I appreciate the input, just one more question. I changed from 12C to 12E because the deep cup caused me to have breathy tone and less responsive attacks, and my chops got fatigued more quickly with the 12C. Let’s say I went with a 5GS, any thoughts?

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-07 10:56 a.m.

Btw, I think the change in my embouchure is due to the dentures. My original two front teeth had a small gap and the dentures do not. Idk, I am no oral expert, just personal observation.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-06-07 11:18 a.m.

You need some expert advice. "talk to Doug Elliott" should be a default button on this board.

SteveM · by **SteveM** » 2023-06-07 11:23 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]I'm convinced the base "human being" sized rim is actually close to a 3G width rim. Build any piece off that rim, with the right volume cup, throat, and bore, and 90% of people would be in business.[/quote]

Would the desirability of the 3G width rim also apply to trumpet, French horn and tuba mouthpieces, since those instruments are also played by human beings?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-06-07 4:56 p.m.

[quote="SteveM"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="211862" time="1686147138" user_id="3642">
I'm convinced the base "human being" sized rim is actually close to a 3G width rim. Build any piece off that rim, with the right volume cup, throat, and bore, and 90% of people would be in business.[/quote]

Would the desirability of the 3G width rim also apply to trumpet, French horn and tuba mouthpieces, since those instruments are also played by human beings?
</QUOTE>

Nah, but those are also instruments built for hobbits and giants.

Fair play. Maybe the 3G is the rim that is the best fit for the range of C1 to F5, which around the range of tenor and bass bone.

SteveM · by **SteveM** » 2023-06-07 6:02 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="SteveM" post_id="211871" time="1686151393" user_id="14413">

Would the desirability of the 3G width rim also apply to trumpet, French horn and tuba mouthpieces, since those instruments are also played by human beings?[/quote]

Nah, but those are also instruments built for hobbits and giants.

Fair play. Maybe the 3G is the rim that is the best fit for the range of C1 to F5, which around the range of tenor and bass bone.
</QUOTE>

And French horn

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2023-06-08 4:57 a.m.

Not gonna lie; the Jim Nova soprano piece is actually disturbingly good on trumpet and also has a 3G rim. It’s the first hybrid piece I’ve tried that actually works at all though.

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-08 1:17 p.m.

I appreciate all input, to paraphrase what a wise person once said, the only bad response is no response. I have been talking to my bass bone instructor about which mouthpiece to get for my Bach Omega 0.547 large bore tenor to play bass parts until my used YBL-612 gets here from Japan, probably a few weeks. I am getting a Yamaha 59L for my bass bone. He recommended for the large bore tenor to use a Bach 5G or equivalent. My question is does anyone use a Yamaha small shank 52? Can someone tell me what they think of that mouthpiece, please?

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2023-06-08 2:15 p.m.

Yam mpcs are about 1 size smaller than a similarly designated Schilke (in my experience). So a Yam 52 would be similar to an S51, a pretty standard size.

Trhtrbn · 2023-06-08 3:41 p.m.

Correct me if I have bad info, but isn’t the 52 the largest small shank mouthpiece that Yamaha makes?

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2023-06-08 4:28 p.m.

If you're asking re the .547 tenor, you need a large shank, not a small shank, and the 5G is a standard suggestion

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-08 4:46 p.m.

That is what I have been trying my best to find out. If that is the case I will just use my Yamaha 59L.

Thx

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-06-08 4:59 p.m.

You can use the Yamaha 59L bass trombone-sized mouthpiece on your 0.547" bore tenor. Same shank size.

But the 59L would generally be considered too large for (even a large-bore) tenor trombone

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-08 5:11 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]You can use the Yamaha 59L bass trombone-sized mouthpiece on your 0.547" bore tenor. Same shank size.

But the 59L would generally be considered too large for (even a large-bore) tenor trombone[/quote]

Thx, I am going to keep the YAC 52S as well, most charts show it as a little bigger than a 6.5AL if I have any problems. I have a mouthpiece adapter if I need it. The large bore is just until I get my used YBL-612 from Japan and have it overhauled and tuned up. That will probably take a few weeks.

Trhtrbn · by **Trhtrbn** » 2023-06-08 6:35 p.m.

If I am not mistaken, the YAC 52 is actually bigger than the Bach 5 series.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-06-08 7:00 p.m.

[quote="Trhtrbn"]If I am not mistaken, the YAC 52 is actually bigger than the Bach 5 series.[/quote]

But it's still not a tenor or bass trombone-compatible setup. The small-to-large bore adapter affects the backbore. My guess is that you'll eventually want a larger mouthpiece for your new trombone. :idk:

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6-1/2 AL used for bass bone