What to practice over 60.
- Trhtrbn
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Jun 05, 2023
I am 62 years old and I play in a local community concert band that plays mostly high school level pieces, maybe a little bit more advanced, but they like to keep it pretty simple. I can sight read most of the pieces we play and have done so in concerts. My question is, are scales, etudes, and method books really necessary at this juncture in my life? I find practice tedious and usually end up playing songs from song and fake books. If I only play songs and work on difficult passages for the band, should I do long tones for warmups or what?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I like to emphasize making music. Practicing melodic stuff like Rochut (Bordogni) exercises or some of the more melodic exercises in other method books should do nicely. You can get Mantia's "The Trombone Virtuoso" on IMSLP for free. Lots of exercises that won't bore you to tears in it.
Nothing wrong with playing from fake books either, provided you try to make it melodic and not mechanical.
Nothing wrong with playing from fake books either, provided you try to make it melodic and not mechanical.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Play whatever you want... just do it correctly.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Not too late in life to get a trombone teacher and follow their guidance.
- jpwell
- Posts: 154
- Joined: May 11, 2018
I am 63 dittos on the teacher.
Scales etudes everything.
Need to keep muscles and brain in shape
Scales etudes everything.
Need to keep muscles and brain in shape
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]Play whatever you want... just do it correctly.[/quote]
THIS
THIS
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
Spend at least a little time on the stuff you can't do.
As soon as you're "good enough" at anything you stagnate.
As soon as you're "good enough" at anything you stagnate.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I'm not quite there yet, but I'm knocking on the door for sure. I like to also play stuff out of the Real books. Just as a hint, there are a lot of them. If you learn to read treble clef, there are a lot more.
But if I just do that, some things get rusty, so there are things I still need to practice with exercises.
- lip slurs
- intervals
- intonation
- time (metronome)
This helps range and flexibility in ways just playing real music doesn't. You always have to work on time and intonation.
But if I just do that, some things get rusty, so there are things I still need to practice with exercises.
- lip slurs
- intervals
- intonation
- time (metronome)
This helps range and flexibility in ways just playing real music doesn't. You always have to work on time and intonation.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
You can work on all of those things while playing tunes. Or "real music," it doesn't have to be exercises.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]You can work on all of those things while playing tunes. Or "real music," it doesn't have to be exercises.[/quote]
Yeah, that's true, but nothing focuses on lip slurs like Arbans or Marsteller. Athletes still do focused exercises. You need to be able to put it in context with real music, but I find the need to focus on a couple of issues.
Yeah, that's true, but nothing focuses on lip slurs like Arbans or Marsteller. Athletes still do focused exercises. You need to be able to put it in context with real music, but I find the need to focus on a couple of issues.
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
I whole-heartedly agree with the above suggestions but would also recommend a target piece to break the monotony of studies and exercises and something to get your teeth into, more challenging than tunes from a fake book.
Here in the UK we have a system of graded practical exams for most instruments from A-Z ('Arp to Zylophone!) :redface: These range from Grade 1 to 8, most pieces have piano accompaniment if you want to perform them in public. They range from simple tunes up to movements from Guillmant, Larsson, David and Grondahl with jazz and classical styles. Beyond Grade 8 there are 4 different levels of Diplomas.
Here is a link to the Trombone and Bass Trombone lists (Pages 49-68)
<LINK_TEXT text="https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-per ... 230303.pdf">https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-performance-grades-qual-spec-brass-2023-230303.pdf</LINK_TEXT>
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, you can't do anything about it (Cryonics are very expensive!) I have been learning the trombone for the last 73 years (I will be 80 in December) and resurrected the Gordon Jacob Concerto as a "lock-down project" 50 years after I last performed it for my Finals Exam. The brain still works and the lips also but the breath and arm movement took some time to get back to the required facility.
Go for it!!!
Cheers
Stewbones43
Here in the UK we have a system of graded practical exams for most instruments from A-Z ('Arp to Zylophone!) :redface: These range from Grade 1 to 8, most pieces have piano accompaniment if you want to perform them in public. They range from simple tunes up to movements from Guillmant, Larsson, David and Grondahl with jazz and classical styles. Beyond Grade 8 there are 4 different levels of Diplomas.
Here is a link to the Trombone and Bass Trombone lists (Pages 49-68)
<LINK_TEXT text="https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-per ... 230303.pdf">https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-performance-grades-qual-spec-brass-2023-230303.pdf</LINK_TEXT>
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, you can't do anything about it (Cryonics are very expensive!) I have been learning the trombone for the last 73 years (I will be 80 in December) and resurrected the Gordon Jacob Concerto as a "lock-down project" 50 years after I last performed it for my Finals Exam. The brain still works and the lips also but the breath and arm movement took some time to get back to the required facility.
Go for it!!!
Cheers
Stewbones43
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
Play anything you want but make sure you listen to yourself as you do it.
/Tom
/Tom
- Trhtrbn
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Jun 05, 2023
Thank you to everyone, I will take all recommendations and find what works for me. The original question was aimed as much toward what to practice as toward warmups. I currently warmup on lip slurs from 1st position down to 7th and the scale I am currently memorizing, working my way around the circle of fourths/fifths. Then I work on song passages for the band and fun songs. I do not practice mouthpiece buzzing as I believe the horn gives much better feedback. Any suggestions for additions to the warmups?
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
What about this? Could this be a help to you? Any ideas? <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=31976">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=31976</LINK_TEXT>
/Tom
/Tom
- Trhtrbn
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Jun 05, 2023
[quote="Trhtrbn"]I am 62 years old and I play in a local community concert band that plays mostly high school level pieces, maybe a little bit more advanced, but they like to keep it pretty simple. I can sight read most of the pieces we play and have done so in concerts. My question is, are scales, etudes, and method books really necessary at this juncture in my life? I find practice tedious and usually end up playing songs from song and fake books. If I only play songs and work on difficult passages for the band, should I do long tones for warmups or what?[/quote]
Hello Folks, just wanted to thank everyone for their help on this subject, I really appreciate this site very much. Just wanted to give an update. I bought a Yamaha YSL-3530R and I am using a Bach 7C mouthpiece. I guess my ADHD and OCD had me searching for a “magic bullet” type of way to getting back my chops and learning to improvise. When I was younger I was inclined to do the stuff that came easy and avoid the tough things. I realize now that there is no “magic bullet” in life or on the trombone. As Einstein pointed out, the definition of insanity is, “Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I got Larry Clark’s book “I used to play trombone” and I am practice 30 minutes 5 days a week, I am sticking to it and when I feel ready, I am switching to David Vinings book for student trombone. For Jazz I am practing 15-20 minutes 5 days a week with Blues backtracking on YouTube. Then I spend about 15 minutes 5 days a week on solo books. I thank you all very much.
Hello Folks, just wanted to thank everyone for their help on this subject, I really appreciate this site very much. Just wanted to give an update. I bought a Yamaha YSL-3530R and I am using a Bach 7C mouthpiece. I guess my ADHD and OCD had me searching for a “magic bullet” type of way to getting back my chops and learning to improvise. When I was younger I was inclined to do the stuff that came easy and avoid the tough things. I realize now that there is no “magic bullet” in life or on the trombone. As Einstein pointed out, the definition of insanity is, “Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I got Larry Clark’s book “I used to play trombone” and I am practice 30 minutes 5 days a week, I am sticking to it and when I feel ready, I am switching to David Vinings book for student trombone. For Jazz I am practing 15-20 minutes 5 days a week with Blues backtracking on YouTube. Then I spend about 15 minutes 5 days a week on solo books. I thank you all very much.
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
- Trhtrbn
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Jun 05, 2023
[quote="Cmillar"]Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.[/quote]
Good advice, thx.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.[/quote]
Good advice, thx.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="Cmillar"]Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get
dystonia in hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.[/quote]
It's good to vary your routines to cover every aspect of what you need to do on the horn. Long tones, various, natural slurs, articulations and nuances, scales, arpeggios, trills, high and low playing and don't forget to play music. If having a routine that is "the same" gives dystonia or not doesn't seem very plausible to me. I don't think anyone knows why some get focal dystonia, it seems so be one of a mystery. I have a friend who got it. Finally he realized that is his problem. It took him years to understand that. The ideal practice is to have a routine that covers all aspects of playing and that also is efficient so you have time to do other things you want to do. That's what my routine is about. Sometimes I play the whole day and some days I only play the routine. I use a routine because I know the routine is enough to keep in shape. A BAD routine is just some random playing without a plan.
/Tom
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get
dystonia in hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.[/quote]
It's good to vary your routines to cover every aspect of what you need to do on the horn. Long tones, various, natural slurs, articulations and nuances, scales, arpeggios, trills, high and low playing and don't forget to play music. If having a routine that is "the same" gives dystonia or not doesn't seem very plausible to me. I don't think anyone knows why some get focal dystonia, it seems so be one of a mystery. I have a friend who got it. Finally he realized that is his problem. It took him years to understand that. The ideal practice is to have a routine that covers all aspects of playing and that also is efficient so you have time to do other things you want to do. That's what my routine is about. Sometimes I play the whole day and some days I only play the routine. I use a routine because I know the routine is enough to keep in shape. A BAD routine is just some random playing without a plan.
/Tom
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
All this advice, all good, but my first thought was "What do you want to do?" I mean, you're 62. Do whatever the f**k you want, you know? But what are your goals? Is your community concert band going to be it for you? Or do you have other/higher goals?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?
- Trhtrbn
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Jun 05, 2023
[quote="tbdana"]All this advice, all good, but my first thought was "What do you want to do?" I mean, you're 62. Do whatever the f**k you want, you know? But what are your goals? Is your community concert band going to be it for you? Or do you have other/higher goals?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?[/quote]
I took lessons from Jeff Reynolds back in the 80’s to 90’s when I was playing tuba and bass bone, he is an awesome trombonist. I don’t know if he still has it, but he used to have a cool train set in his basement that was a model of the Cajon Pass. He really loved his basset hounds, too. Idk know if you noticed in my earlier posts, but my biggest obstacle is learning to play with dentures and not having played an instrument for over 10 years. There is not much info out there on how to overcome the changes to the embouchure when you get dentures. I guess I want to be the best trombonist I can be, and I am starting lessons tomorrow with an instructor who plays professionally, in Jazz, Classical, Pop, etc. I will get some guidance from him. I am just very inquisitive and will ask questions when they pop into my head. I have decided to stick with the YSL-3530R and a Bach 7C instead of the 45A. So no more equipment questions for awhile, lol.
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?[/quote]
I took lessons from Jeff Reynolds back in the 80’s to 90’s when I was playing tuba and bass bone, he is an awesome trombonist. I don’t know if he still has it, but he used to have a cool train set in his basement that was a model of the Cajon Pass. He really loved his basset hounds, too. Idk know if you noticed in my earlier posts, but my biggest obstacle is learning to play with dentures and not having played an instrument for over 10 years. There is not much info out there on how to overcome the changes to the embouchure when you get dentures. I guess I want to be the best trombonist I can be, and I am starting lessons tomorrow with an instructor who plays professionally, in Jazz, Classical, Pop, etc. I will get some guidance from him. I am just very inquisitive and will ask questions when they pop into my head. I have decided to stick with the YSL-3530R and a Bach 7C instead of the 45A. So no more equipment questions for awhile, lol.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
68 here. I’ve got a 2-month break and I’ve been thinking about what to practice for the next few months.
I’m thinking of 4 15-min sessions as follows:
1 Warm-up
2 Technical (eg Arban, Schlossberg)
3 Improvisation (IReal Pro)
4 What I got coming up this fall (Rhenish, Lohengrin), misc
I’m thinking of 4 15-min sessions as follows:
1 Warm-up
2 Technical (eg Arban, Schlossberg)
3 Improvisation (IReal Pro)
4 What I got coming up this fall (Rhenish, Lohengrin), misc
- Macbone1
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Oct 01, 2019
This string looks pretty complete but I will add my two cents. I am also over sixty.
Find or create some exercises to keep the more extreme skills needed for the instrument under your fingers. High range, trills/ flexibility, large interval leaps and multiple tonguing can all fade over time if you don't give them regular attention. You don't have to drill on all of them every day, but don't forget about them.
Find or create some exercises to keep the more extreme skills needed for the instrument under your fingers. High range, trills/ flexibility, large interval leaps and multiple tonguing can all fade over time if you don't give them regular attention. You don't have to drill on all of them every day, but don't forget about them.
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
Scales and arpeggios are always good to know, major and minor, diminished, augmented. And since you play jazz know what half diminished is as well. The majority of music is based off of them, and knowing them can help you identify patterns that will make difficult passages easier to play. And you need to know these if you want to improvise. (I believe that in other posts on this forum you mentioned that you found a big band to join.)