Bach Artisan model A47MLR
- LarryPrestonRoberson
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Bach has been vague about the specifics of the Artisan line of trombones—at least the differences relative to the 42 models. In fact, there is still isn't a listing on Conn-Selmer's Parts Catalog (repair parts site) for parts for the Artisan line of trombones.
Does anyone know if Bach manufactures the rotors for the Artisan model A47MLR in house? Or, do they out-source them? The wrap and configuration looks similar to the Bach 42BOF (Centennial) I'm testing out. The rotor for the 42BOF is the Meinlschmidt Open-Flow valve.
I'm also aware the Artisan A47I is equipped with the Infinity axial flow valve made by Instrument Innovations (Mike Olsen). This is the same valve and wrap (with minor hardware modifications) as my 42AF. But, I would like to know the specifics about the rotor for the Bach Artisan model A47MLR? If anyone has this information to share, I would appreciate it.
Does anyone know if Bach manufactures the rotors for the Artisan model A47MLR in house? Or, do they out-source them? The wrap and configuration looks similar to the Bach 42BOF (Centennial) I'm testing out. The rotor for the 42BOF is the Meinlschmidt Open-Flow valve.
I'm also aware the Artisan A47I is equipped with the Infinity axial flow valve made by Instrument Innovations (Mike Olsen). This is the same valve and wrap (with minor hardware modifications) as my 42AF. But, I would like to know the specifics about the rotor for the Bach Artisan model A47MLR? If anyone has this information to share, I would appreciate it.
- norbie2018
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Apr 05, 2018
Are they going to make these anymore? Change the name/model# perhaps?
- TriJim
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Mar 25, 2018
Besides the valve, Artisan models have the reverse tuning slide, a detachable bell, and steel (instead of brass) wire in the bell.
I also recall discussion of a different bell flare and thinner metal in Artisan bells - but not certain of these differences from 42 or Centennial models.
I also recall discussion of a different bell flare and thinner metal in Artisan bells - but not certain of these differences from 42 or Centennial models.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
The valve is made in house, I think. They used the wrap for the new Centennial models with the different valve.
They both play very well. I really like the rotor on the unfortunately named MLR section. Mine plays very well. I wouldn't call it supremely open, but one of the best tenor rotors I have ever played for sure.
They both play very well. I really like the rotor on the unfortunately named MLR section. Mine plays very well. I wouldn't call it supremely open, but one of the best tenor rotors I have ever played for sure.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="TriJim"]Besides the valve, Artisan models have the reverse tuning slide, a detachable bell, and steel (instead of brass) wire in the bell.
I also recall discussion of a different bell flare and thinner metal in Artisan bells - but not certain of these differences from 42 or Centennial models.[/quote]
I recently acquired an A47 MLR and the first thing I noticed was how light the horn was. Even with the F attachment hardware, this horn was light compared to other Bach 42s. Took off the attachment and the bell is ridiculously light.
Does anyone know how much lighter these bells are? The horn definitely plays amazingly and open through the rotor.
I also recall discussion of a different bell flare and thinner metal in Artisan bells - but not certain of these differences from 42 or Centennial models.[/quote]
I recently acquired an A47 MLR and the first thing I noticed was how light the horn was. Even with the F attachment hardware, this horn was light compared to other Bach 42s. Took off the attachment and the bell is ridiculously light.
Does anyone know how much lighter these bells are? The horn definitely plays amazingly and open through the rotor.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I'm not sure how much lighter the bell is. I think the bell section is just generally lighter in construction, but not to the point that it detracts from the instrument.
Sadly, I use mine with a counterweight. Even then, it's about the same as a similar horn without a counterweight.
The valve cap no longer says MLR, as the instrument is now an A47BO with new production.
I think I'm able to get a new valve cap with the new engraving, too!
Sadly, I use mine with a counterweight. Even then, it's about the same as a similar horn without a counterweight.
The valve cap no longer says MLR, as the instrument is now an A47BO with new production.
I think I'm able to get a new valve cap with the new engraving, too!
- LarryPrestonRoberson
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]The valve is made in house, I think. They used the wrap for the new Centennial models with the different valve.
They both play very well. I really like the rotor on the unfortunately named MLR section. Mine plays very well. I wouldn't call it supremely open, but one of the best tenor rotors I have ever played for sure.[/quote]
What about the hand-slide? Besides the the brass hand-grip, it looks the same. Is it still the 42/50 bass crook? I wonder if the leap pipe is different.
They both play very well. I really like the rotor on the unfortunately named MLR section. Mine plays very well. I wouldn't call it supremely open, but one of the best tenor rotors I have ever played for sure.[/quote]
What about the hand-slide? Besides the the brass hand-grip, it looks the same. Is it still the 42/50 bass crook? I wonder if the leap pipe is different.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]I'm not sure how much lighter the bell is. I think the bell section is just generally lighter in construction, but not to the point that it detracts from the instrument.
Sadly, I use mine with a counterweight. Even then, it's about the same as a similar horn without a counterweight.
The valve cap no longer says MLR, as the instrument is now an A47BO with new production.
I think I'm able to get a new valve cap with the new engraving, too![/quote]
That would explain a lot. Just noticeably lighter than my other 42s. Unfortunately mine has the MLR cap on it.
Sadly, I use mine with a counterweight. Even then, it's about the same as a similar horn without a counterweight.
The valve cap no longer says MLR, as the instrument is now an A47BO with new production.
I think I'm able to get a new valve cap with the new engraving, too![/quote]
That would explain a lot. Just noticeably lighter than my other 42s. Unfortunately mine has the MLR cap on it.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
What is the brass sleeve that comes in a small bag near the mouthpiece in the case with this horn? Anyone know what thst is for?
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="LarryPrestonRoberson"]What about the hand-slide? Besides the the brass hand-grip, it looks the same. Is it still the 42/50 bass crook? I wonder if the leap pipe is different.[/quote]
I’m curious to know, too. I must admit though that I was pleasantly surprised by how buttery the slide was considering it was a preowned horn.
I’m curious to know, too. I must admit though that I was pleasantly surprised by how buttery the slide was considering it was a preowned horn.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]What is the brass sleeve that comes in a small bag near the mouthpiece in the case with this horn? Anyone know what thst is for?[/quote]
I wondered the same. It’s like a mystery puzzle piece that you need to figure out what its purpose is.
I wondered the same. It’s like a mystery puzzle piece that you need to figure out what its purpose is.
- castrubone
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Apr 09, 2018
It's definitely not the same slide. Leadpipe is probably the biggest difference. It does have a bass crook like a 42 slide.
The extra brass sleeve is hilarious, but I'm not surprised there are no instructions anywhere as to what it is or what one is supposed to do with it.
As for the valve, it's suspiciously similar to the standard valve on the 88H, which is suspiciously similar to the 4B valve. I'd wager it's a modified/tweaked version, but I can't say for sure. I can say that after playing an 88HO and A47BO back to back recently that the valve plays markedly similar. It's definitely the best horn Bach makes, but it's still not a Conn ;)
The extra brass sleeve is hilarious, but I'm not surprised there are no instructions anywhere as to what it is or what one is supposed to do with it.
As for the valve, it's suspiciously similar to the standard valve on the 88H, which is suspiciously similar to the 4B valve. I'd wager it's a modified/tweaked version, but I can't say for sure. I can say that after playing an 88HO and A47BO back to back recently that the valve plays markedly similar. It's definitely the best horn Bach makes, but it's still not a Conn ;)
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
The little sleeve goes in the receiver on the bell section where the hand slide inserts. It’s to maintain the tubing diameter between the inside of the hand slide tenon and the inside of the valve knuckle. Otherwise, there’s a tiny section of tubing between the top of the hand slide and bottom of the valve knuckle that’s a smidge wider than what’s around it. Put another way, the receiver is wider in bore than the pieces that slip inside it from either end. The sleeve “fixes” that. I know a guy who has one and I didn’t like the sound with the sleeve in there.
- SwissTbone
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="ChadA"]The little sleeve goes in the receiver on the bell section where the hand slide inserts. It’s to maintain the tubing diameter between the inside of the hand slide tenon and the inside of the valve knuckle. Otherwise, there’s a tiny section of tubing between the top of the hand slide and bottom of the valve knuckle that’s a smidge wider than what’s around it. Put another way, the receiver is wider in bore than the pieces that slip inside it from either end. The sleeve “fixes” that. I know a guy who has one and I didn’t like the sound with the sleeve in there.[/quote]
That would be really similar to a concept that Hagmann does. He calls it multi bore slide receiver
http://trombone.ch
That would be really similar to a concept that Hagmann does. He calls it multi bore slide receiver
http://trombone.ch
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I've had my sleeve in the whole time. I actually haven't tried it without yet...
- TriJim
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Mar 25, 2018
Still MLR related, but a different problem - any other MLR owners with broken 'water key' springs? I've broken 3 or 4 and also had the water key separate from the slide - had to be re-soldered. When I bought the horn (and I've asked Bach sales reps); I was told to place the water key on the bottom when the slide is in the brown coffin case (supplied with the horn and similar to the cases for most newer Bach trombones). I think the coffin case and divider (between bell and slide) puts pressure on the water key which has been leading to broken springs and water key detachment. Recently started placing the slide with water key 'up.'
Any others with similar problems with their MLR (or other Bach trombones)?
I should add that another joint on my horn separated and had to be re-soldered so maybe mine was just 'built on a Monday.'
Any others with similar problems with their MLR (or other Bach trombones)?
I should add that another joint on my horn separated and had to be re-soldered so maybe mine was just 'built on a Monday.'
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
^Yikes. I just received mine on Friday so I’ll keep an eye out for any problems that may arise. Sorry for the unfortunate luck!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Mine has been very solid. I do keep mine in a Bonna, though. I only used the stock case for a week or so.
The only problem was that my straight gooseneck didn't fit the bell at all, i had to have John Sandhagen bang on it for a bit. The nuts didn't thread onto the bell posts at all as well.
The only problem was that my straight gooseneck didn't fit the bell at all, i had to have John Sandhagen bang on it for a bit. The nuts didn't thread onto the bell posts at all as well.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Mine has been very solid. I do keep mine in a Bonna, though. I only used the stock case for a week or so.
The only problem was that my straight gooseneck didn't fit the bell at all, i had to have John Sandhagen bang on it for a bit. The nuts didn't thread onto the bell posts at all as well.[/quote]
Interesting about the gooseneck. I was looking into picking one up from Hickey’s. I wonder if this issue has been fixed by Bach?
The only problem was that my straight gooseneck didn't fit the bell at all, i had to have John Sandhagen bang on it for a bit. The nuts didn't thread onto the bell posts at all as well.[/quote]
Interesting about the gooseneck. I was looking into picking one up from Hickey’s. I wonder if this issue has been fixed by Bach?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Hmm. I took my little spacer thing out of the slide receiver today. First impressions are that the middle and low range articulate a little easier, a little more of that 42 sound as well. I'll leave it out for a while.
- Model34
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Apr 08, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]Hmm. I took my little spacer thing out of the slide receiver today. First impressions are that the middle and low range articulate a little easier, a little more of that 42 sound as well. I'll leave it out for a while.[/quote]
Ok Bob. It’s been a while. What are your findings?
Ok Bob. It’s been a while. What are your findings?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Model34"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="82032" time="1554158301" user_id="3131">
Hmm. I took my little spacer thing out of the slide receiver today. First impressions are that the middle and low range articulate a little easier, a little more of that 42 sound as well. I'll leave it out for a while.[/quote]
Ok Bob. It’s been a while. What are your findings?
</QUOTE>
Sold the horn long ago! But I did end up leaving out the spacer the whole time. I'd like to play it again, at the time I really wasn't getting along with the horn but it was probably entirely me that was the issue.
Hmm. I took my little spacer thing out of the slide receiver today. First impressions are that the middle and low range articulate a little easier, a little more of that 42 sound as well. I'll leave it out for a while.[/quote]
Ok Bob. It’s been a while. What are your findings?
</QUOTE>
Sold the horn long ago! But I did end up leaving out the spacer the whole time. I'd like to play it again, at the time I really wasn't getting along with the horn but it was probably entirely me that was the issue.