A Little Riddle Concerning Bach Trombones
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
The other day I saw a Bach trombone that was rather unique. It did not have an F-attachment. The bell was stamped ”36L” at the factory.
Can you figure out WHAT this bell is and WHY it was stamped that way?
Can you figure out WHAT this bell is and WHY it was stamped that way?
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="SteveM"]Just a guess - does it fit a larger (42) slide?[/quote]
Nope!
Nope!
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="Finetales"]It's a 36 with a 10.5" bell!
:pant:[/quote]
Getting warm….you have just gone a little too far.
:pant:[/quote]
Getting warm….you have just gone a little too far.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Ooo, the big boy 36! That half inch makes a big difference.
- octavposaune
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Jul 04, 2018
I have seen a handfiul of 8.5" belled 36s (NY to modern day), none had 36L! Fun!
Benn
Benn
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Wouldn’t that just be a complete 42 bell section with a 36-sized slide receiver?
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Side note, I irrationally really want one of the 42Ls that are out there…
Cheers,
Andy
Cheers,
Andy
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="MrHCinDE"]Wouldn’t that just be a complete 42 bell section with a 36-sized slide receiver?[/quote]
Yup. But the stamping!!
Yup. But the stamping!!
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="MrHCinDE"]Wouldn’t that just be a complete 42 bell section with a 36-sized slide receiver?[/quote]
Yep, you nailed it! The 36 and 42 bells are made from the same mandrel. This one was cut to be 8.5 inches, but labeled as 36L because it was paired with a 36 slide and slide receiver.
Yep, you nailed it! The 36 and 42 bells are made from the same mandrel. This one was cut to be 8.5 inches, but labeled as 36L because it was paired with a 36 slide and slide receiver.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="elmsandr"]Side note, I irrationally really want one of the 42Ls that are out there…[/quote]
Is that 9" or 9.5"?
Is that 9" or 9.5"?
- octavposaune
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Jul 04, 2018
I want one of those 42Ls too...9" bells, apparently a few SO in the Boaton area 60 years ago...
Benn
Benn
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I thought a 42 with a 9" bell was a 45 :???:[/quote]
Nope, original 45s are totally unique instruments.
Nope, original 45s are totally unique instruments.
- Tbarh
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]Also don’t 45 that have 8.5” bells![/quote]
9“ or 9 1/2“ allthough i have heared of 8 1/2“ but newer seen it verified..Anyway ;a difference of 1/2“ is less than You would think <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>
9“ or 9 1/2“ allthough i have heared of 8 1/2“ but newer seen it verified..Anyway ;a difference of 1/2“ is less than You would think <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
I believe that my 1990s Bach 42GHM that I mentioned in another thread is related to this Bach 45 discussion. The "M" refers to the open gooseneck, but I am convinced that the taper is different as well. The diameter is 8 3/4 inch and the throat is is definitely wider. I believe it was spun on a Bach 45 mandrel.
Anyone else out there have a 42M bell and want to share?
Anyone else out there have a 42M bell and want to share?
- officermayo
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Jun 09, 2021
I always mistake P.D.Q for J.S.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="greenbean"]Maybe the shop card will shed some light!...[/quote]
No shop cards after the early 60’s (~s/n 6300 or so).
I’d be surprised at a 42 spun on the 45 mandrel… with the process, that wouldn’t be just a single tool that was changed, it would be several steps different. BUT, they’ve done dumber things.
I know where one 42 G L is… pretty sure it even has a nice Greenhoe valve on it, too. But I also know there is not a chance the current owner will sell it to me. He sounds great on it.
And, a half inch may not seem like a lot, but sometimes it can make quite a difference… and not always for the better.
Cheers,
Andy
No shop cards after the early 60’s (~s/n 6300 or so).
I’d be surprised at a 42 spun on the 45 mandrel… with the process, that wouldn’t be just a single tool that was changed, it would be several steps different. BUT, they’ve done dumber things.
I know where one 42 G L is… pretty sure it even has a nice Greenhoe valve on it, too. But I also know there is not a chance the current owner will sell it to me. He sounds great on it.
And, a half inch may not seem like a lot, but sometimes it can make quite a difference… and not always for the better.
Cheers,
Andy
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Yep....the Bach shop cards didn't even make it into the "Corporation" years. So....no hope of finding that.
My 42GHM horn was a "special order" done through Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. I was working with Byron Toney at WMC, who knew many of the Bach factory folks very well. When I was trying horns to determine what to buy, he did let me try a Mt. Vernon 45 that they had there. The 45 was already sold but waiting to go to their shop for some slide work.
Byron Toney really liked my sound on the 45, but I thought it was slightly too broad for my taste. It was probably a matter of the bell not giving me as much feedback as some of the other horns I was trying. Anyway, I sometimes wonder if Byron Toney ordered it and requested the 45 bell. Maybe he asked them to cut it at a smaller diameter to tame it a little bit and also asked them to stamp it as a 42.
The bell is definitely larger in the throat than the other 42s that I have. I have measured it a few times and it is about 60 thousandths of an inch wider in the zone where the stamp is. I really don't want to measure it repeatedly because it is gold plated and the calipers can scratch the plating.
Going back a couple of decades, Bach would do anything that you asked them to do as long as Lloyd Filio gave it the thumbs up. There was a trumpet teacher here in town for many years who insisted all of his students play on a Bach 3C. This frustrated some of his students who felt more comfortable playing on other mouthpieces. So.....there was a tech at a local music shop who knew the folks at Bach/Selmer very well and he would order other mouthpieces for these trumpet students (1.5C, 2C, 5C, etc....), but would have them stamp it "3C." The trumpet teacher didn't know that half of his students were playing on "other" mouthpieces. When he left town a couple of his students told him what was going on and he was....quite upset!
My 42GHM horn was a "special order" done through Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. I was working with Byron Toney at WMC, who knew many of the Bach factory folks very well. When I was trying horns to determine what to buy, he did let me try a Mt. Vernon 45 that they had there. The 45 was already sold but waiting to go to their shop for some slide work.
Byron Toney really liked my sound on the 45, but I thought it was slightly too broad for my taste. It was probably a matter of the bell not giving me as much feedback as some of the other horns I was trying. Anyway, I sometimes wonder if Byron Toney ordered it and requested the 45 bell. Maybe he asked them to cut it at a smaller diameter to tame it a little bit and also asked them to stamp it as a 42.
The bell is definitely larger in the throat than the other 42s that I have. I have measured it a few times and it is about 60 thousandths of an inch wider in the zone where the stamp is. I really don't want to measure it repeatedly because it is gold plated and the calipers can scratch the plating.
Going back a couple of decades, Bach would do anything that you asked them to do as long as Lloyd Filio gave it the thumbs up. There was a trumpet teacher here in town for many years who insisted all of his students play on a Bach 3C. This frustrated some of his students who felt more comfortable playing on other mouthpieces. So.....there was a tech at a local music shop who knew the folks at Bach/Selmer very well and he would order other mouthpieces for these trumpet students (1.5C, 2C, 5C, etc....), but would have them stamp it "3C." The trumpet teacher didn't know that half of his students were playing on "other" mouthpieces. When he left town a couple of his students told him what was going on and he was....quite upset!
- dukesboneman
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
Jimmy Knepper`s last 36 I believe had a. 8 1/2 " Bell