Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
- DJC0189
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Apr 14, 2021
Hey, friends! I'm back with another weird question:
Aside from the general issues of dexterity with a contrabass trombone, has anyone attempted to use it as the bass voice in a brass quintet? I've found myself in a position where I'll more than likely be switching down to the lowest chair, and the question arose in my head. There's a (VERY) large chance I'll just use bass, but I figured it's worth a discussion to see what others have experimented with. Discuss!
Aside from the general issues of dexterity with a contrabass trombone, has anyone attempted to use it as the bass voice in a brass quintet? I've found myself in a position where I'll more than likely be switching down to the lowest chair, and the question arose in my head. There's a (VERY) large chance I'll just use bass, but I figured it's worth a discussion to see what others have experimented with. Discuss!
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
I've played a few pieces for brass quintet that called for contra instead of tuba or bass trombone (and were well written). I didn't really like the way it felt from the tenor spot. I remember it feeling like there was a pretty big tonal gap between the bottom voice and the rest of the group in a way that isn't there with bass or f tuba. Like that is just wanted a bass to fill the gap between myself and the person playing contra, if that makes sense?
BUT I'd also be really curious if would feel different with a F contra. the other times have been with BBb and CC contras, so maybe a "smaller" one would work better?
BUT I'd also be really curious if would feel different with a F contra. the other times have been with BBb and CC contras, so maybe a "smaller" one would work better?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Put simply, I just wouldn't want to hold up a contra that much.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Maybe for lit that was intended for a bass bone, F contra wouldn't be bad. And it depends on how powerful the rest of the quintet is. Personally, I'm at the point with my own quintet that I only want to hear bass tuba, but that's specific to my own group. I can imagine situations where that would work, but your Bb Bankelsangerlieder might not be one of them.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- EdwardSolomon
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've done it only once and it wasn't fun. You have to work far too hard to make it work because of the tonal gap between the tenor trombone and the contra, because of the sheer weight of the instrument (I had a BBb Mirafone at the time) and because sometimes it just really doesn't suit the music.
Let's face facts: the brass quintet as we know it started life as two cornetts and a trio of trombones, which eventually became two trumpets, a horn, a trombone, and a tuba. There's good reason why that combination works well - and also represents each member of the orchestral brass.
In summary, using the contra is too much like hard work.
Let's face facts: the brass quintet as we know it started life as two cornetts and a trio of trombones, which eventually became two trumpets, a horn, a trombone, and a tuba. There's good reason why that combination works well - and also represents each member of the orchestral brass.
In summary, using the contra is too much like hard work.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Put simply, I just wouldn't want to hold up a contra that much.[/quote]
Bingo.
Bingo.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="DJC0189"]Discuss![/quote]
Don't put a square peg in a round, well labled hole.
Don't put a square peg in a round, well labled hole.
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="DJC0189" post_id="215833" time="1690158837" user_id="11974">
Discuss![/quote]
Don't put a square peg in a round, well labled hole.
</QUOTE>
[url]https://youtu.be/6pDH66X3ClA
Discuss![/quote]
Don't put a square peg in a round, well labled hole.
</QUOTE>
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
That's great
- Rrova
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Apr 10, 2018
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott[/quote]
Speaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
Jim Scott[/quote]
Speaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
OP, did you get a contrabass yet or are you still trying to have the forum justify it for you?
- Johnstad
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I guess I’ll be in the minority here…
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Johnstad"]I guess I’ll be in the minority here…
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.[/quote]
Do you have a recording so we can hear it in context? Or do you know other contra quintet recordings?
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.[/quote]
Do you have a recording so we can hear it in context? Or do you know other contra quintet recordings?
- Johnstad
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I don’t have brass quintet recordings, but here are some chamber recordings…the Premru I performed on bass. The rest are on contra.
<YOUTUBE list="PLC3-qeXdNSFz4gviP6IGO1w6jiFPD2dLp"><LINK_TEXT text="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC3- ... 6jiFPD2dLp">https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC3-qeXdNSFz4gviP6IGO1w6jiFPD2dLp</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE list="PLC3-qeXdNSFz4gviP6IGO1w6jiFPD2dLp"><LINK_TEXT text="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC3- ... 6jiFPD2dLp">https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC3-qeXdNSFz4gviP6IGO1w6jiFPD2dLp</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>
- Johnstad
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
In a double brass quintet.
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="Johnstad"]In a double brass quintet.
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share[/quote]
Sounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contra :good:
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again. :hi:
/Tom
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share[/quote]
Sounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contra :good:
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again. :hi:
/Tom
- DJC0189
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Apr 14, 2021
Thanks for the comments, everyone! I appreciate the insights!
[quote="harrisonreed"]OP, did you get a contrabass yet or are you still trying to have the forum justify it for you?[/quote]
Oh, I've got one already, just a cheap clone to get the job done. I would not use something as trivial as this "maybe" situation to justify that large of a purchase!
[quote="harrisonreed"]OP, did you get a contrabass yet or are you still trying to have the forum justify it for you?[/quote]
Oh, I've got one already, just a cheap clone to get the job done. I would not use something as trivial as this "maybe" situation to justify that large of a purchase!
- Johnstad
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="Johnstad" post_id="215951" time="1690256057" user_id="56">
In a double brass quintet.
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share[/quote]
Sounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contra :good:
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again. :hi:
/Tom
</QUOTE>
You bet Tom!
In a double brass quintet.
2020
<YOUTUBE id="qz81LlUHS9g">https://youtu.be/qz81LlUHS9g</YOUTUBE>
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share[/quote]
Sounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contra :good:
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again. :hi:
/Tom
</QUOTE>
You bet Tom!
- BigBadandBass
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Feb 13, 2020
[quote="Rrova"]<QUOTE author="CalgaryTbone" post_id="215857" time="1690170835" user_id="3262">
The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott[/quote]
Speaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
</QUOTE>
I’m a real big fan of either Eb tuba or (even more radical) a small bore tenor and bass trombone in a quintet. The Eb and that trombone combo mix up the sound really well
Back to the main point though, as everyone else has said, that’s a lotta weight for not a lot of pay enough
The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott[/quote]
Speaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
</QUOTE>
I’m a real big fan of either Eb tuba or (even more radical) a small bore tenor and bass trombone in a quintet. The Eb and that trombone combo mix up the sound really well
Back to the main point though, as everyone else has said, that’s a lotta weight for not a lot of pay enough