Bach Large Tenor Project: Complete!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
A couple years ago, I picked up a Bach 36K on Ebay for cheap. At the time I had a few 42s as well, but I've never really owned any .547s that floated my boat long term. Benn Hansson mentioned that the K valve sections were very close to being the same spacing as Bach Artisan (the newer A-series modular horns from Bach).
The 36K by itself was ok and interesting enough, but not especially useful... so the decision was made to make it, and some more parts that were picked up over the years, into a big modular project.
Included are:
Corporation 42 bell
42G* bell (Friedman flare)
36 bell
K valve section
Hagmann valve section (originally from a Besson 944)
Straight neckpipe
3 reversed tuning slides, two in yellow brass and one in gold brass
Shires TB47 slide
Edwards TBCN slide
Bach 36 slide, large connector, wide Shires crook
I have honestly not had the time to mix and match to find the best possible setups, but I have a feeling the ones in the pictures are about as close as it gets.
I had a few people play the K valve section at ITF- Edwards TBCN slide, K valve, gold brass tuning slide, Corp 42 bell. Everyone that tried it loved it, and honestly I think it was one of the best large tenors at the show.
The Hagmann section is also great- with the Friedman bell it's just a bit lighter sound, more color.
I can't wait to dig into these in a few weeks... in any case, I am more excited about large tenor (probably my least favorite double) than I have been ever.
Huge credit to Benn for all the work in finding and putting together the parts- everything is beautiful and both valve sections have M neckpipes, even!
The 36K by itself was ok and interesting enough, but not especially useful... so the decision was made to make it, and some more parts that were picked up over the years, into a big modular project.
Included are:
Corporation 42 bell
42G* bell (Friedman flare)
36 bell
K valve section
Hagmann valve section (originally from a Besson 944)
Straight neckpipe
3 reversed tuning slides, two in yellow brass and one in gold brass
Shires TB47 slide
Edwards TBCN slide
Bach 36 slide, large connector, wide Shires crook
I have honestly not had the time to mix and match to find the best possible setups, but I have a feeling the ones in the pictures are about as close as it gets.
I had a few people play the K valve section at ITF- Edwards TBCN slide, K valve, gold brass tuning slide, Corp 42 bell. Everyone that tried it loved it, and honestly I think it was one of the best large tenors at the show.
The Hagmann section is also great- with the Friedman bell it's just a bit lighter sound, more color.
I can't wait to dig into these in a few weeks... in any case, I am more excited about large tenor (probably my least favorite double) than I have been ever.
Huge credit to Benn for all the work in finding and putting together the parts- everything is beautiful and both valve sections have M neckpipes, even!
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I love the Hagmann linkage. Was thinking if something similar after trying an Edwards S thumb brace and liking it but having the pivot point interfere with it.
- rmb796
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sep 05, 2018
I'm playing on a Friedman bell with the original Thayer and a 42 LT slide and really like it. You mentioned once that you liked the Edwards and Shires slides better than the Bach slide. I might be interested in trying the Edwards slide with the 42G* bell. What were your results when you used a different slide?
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="rmb796"]I'm playing on a Friedman bell with the original Thayer and a 42 LT slide and really like it. You mentioned once that you liked the Edwards and Shires slides better than the Bach slide. I might be interested in trying the Edwards slide with the 42G* bell. What were your results when you used a different slide?
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy[/quote]
I need to swap all the parts around, but my Friedman bell (here paired with yellow tuning slide, hagmann) works best with my Shires TB47. The Tb47 and the Edwards TBCN are really the same idea- nickel oversleeves, yellow tubes, nickel bass crook, but they are different enough that I have kept both. I have tried the Edwards on that setup and it works, but the Shires is better. Need to experiment more though!
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy[/quote]
I need to swap all the parts around, but my Friedman bell (here paired with yellow tuning slide, hagmann) works best with my Shires TB47. The Tb47 and the Edwards TBCN are really the same idea- nickel oversleeves, yellow tubes, nickel bass crook, but they are different enough that I have kept both. I have tried the Edwards on that setup and it works, but the Shires is better. Need to experiment more though!
- rmb796
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sep 05, 2018
Thanks. I will be keeping my eye out fora good Shires TB47. Any ideas why the high Ab would be so
sensitive and set up a slight vibration?
sensitive and set up a slight vibration?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="rmb796"]Thanks. I will be keeping my eye out fora good Shires TB47. Any ideas why the high Ab would be so
sensitive and set up a slight vibration?[/quote]
Dunno... I tend to not notice those things too much, I just play loud!
Keep in mind a Shires slide will need an Edwards tenon to fit Bachs correctly. It's not a hard fix, just need the part and a tech with a torch.
sensitive and set up a slight vibration?[/quote]
Dunno... I tend to not notice those things too much, I just play loud!
Keep in mind a Shires slide will need an Edwards tenon to fit Bachs correctly. It's not a hard fix, just need the part and a tech with a torch.
- rmb796
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sep 05, 2018
Thanks. I'll have to think about the slide. Appreciate your help.
Randy
Randy
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
High A-flat is a notoriously finicky note on a Bach 42. I know a few great players who say that particular note is the worst pitch in their 42s. I had problems with my high A-flats as well. I solved that issue by experimenting with mouthpiece/leadpipe combinations.
Many people who play Bach 42s actually have problems with the high A-flat….they just don’t know it yet. There are probably some players out there right now playing repeated high A-flats to determine if it is a “Wolf-Tone” for them. I’m sorry if I am the one that made you aware of this issue.
Many people who play Bach 42s actually have problems with the high A-flat….they just don’t know it yet. There are probably some players out there right now playing repeated high A-flats to determine if it is a “Wolf-Tone” for them. I’m sorry if I am the one that made you aware of this issue.
- rmb796
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sep 05, 2018
Thanks for your input on the high Ab. I have tried putting velco strips on various parts of the horn, switched slides, and mouthpieces but to no avail. I can live with it most of the time but it is a little unnerving if I have to make a soft entrance on a high Ab. Maybe I am just letting it get in my head.....Enough!!!
- octavposaune
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Jul 04, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]I love the Hagmann linkage. Was thinking if something similar after trying an Edwards S thumb brace and liking it but having the pivot point interfere with it.[/quote]
Hi Matt,
The original lever wasn't going to work with the new offset main bell brace I had to use. I used Instrument innovation bearing saddles and I bent a blank stainless lever to build Aidans lever. The saddle is moveable to adjust the entire levers position. The unique thing is that the miniball links I used dont change operation (much) when the lever is adjusted. I guess thats the benefit of a hagmann actuation. I really like the both these valve sections.
Benn
Hi Matt,
The original lever wasn't going to work with the new offset main bell brace I had to use. I used Instrument innovation bearing saddles and I bent a blank stainless lever to build Aidans lever. The saddle is moveable to adjust the entire levers position. The unique thing is that the miniball links I used dont change operation (much) when the lever is adjusted. I guess thats the benefit of a hagmann actuation. I really like the both these valve sections.
Benn
- Boneuphtoner
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Jul 05, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Benn Hansson mentioned that the K valve sections were very close to being the same spacing as Bach Artisan (the newer A-series modular horns from Bach).
][/quote]
Such a wonderful set of instruments, and it’s great that with this setup you should be able to mix and match for most anything you would want to do on large tenor. I remember hearing on your videos about your large tenor project, and this seems amazingly cool.
Question about the K valve spacing and the Artisan series - do you mean the position of the valve or the bell bracing, etc?
][/quote]
Such a wonderful set of instruments, and it’s great that with this setup you should be able to mix and match for most anything you would want to do on large tenor. I remember hearing on your videos about your large tenor project, and this seems amazingly cool.
Question about the K valve spacing and the Artisan series - do you mean the position of the valve or the bell bracing, etc?
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
For that matter does that meant the tuning slides are not comatible between K series and others?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Boneuphtoner"]
Question about the K valve spacing and the Artisan series - do you mean the position of the valve or the bell bracing, etc?[/quote]
The bracing is almost exactly the same as the modern setups, so easy to convert to fit.
[quote="Matt K"]For that matter does that meant the tuning slides are not comatible between K series and others?[/quote]
All the tuning slides are interchangeable.
Question about the K valve spacing and the Artisan series - do you mean the position of the valve or the bell bracing, etc?[/quote]
The bracing is almost exactly the same as the modern setups, so easy to convert to fit.
[quote="Matt K"]For that matter does that meant the tuning slides are not comatible between K series and others?[/quote]
All the tuning slides are interchangeable.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Oh I see you mean the span from bell brace to bell brace. That took way longer for me to click than it should
- MalecHeermans
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="rmb796"]I'm playing on a Friedman bell with the original Thayer and a 42 LT slide and really like it. You mentioned once that you liked the Edwards and Shires slides better than the Bach slide. I might be interested in trying the Edwards slide with the 42G* bell. What were your results when you used a different slide?
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy[/quote]
I've had a number of horns over the years that rang on Ab. Some of them really rang. I never liked that sensation, even though some were okay instruments. Eventually I got rid of them.
Also this horn seems to really vibrate when I play a high Ab. It is also a bit difficult to hit accurately .
Always enjoy your videos and comments.
Randy[/quote]
I've had a number of horns over the years that rang on Ab. Some of them really rang. I never liked that sensation, even though some were okay instruments. Eventually I got rid of them.