1928 King Silver Tone slide (recommendation as how to fix)
- bbadgerd
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Nov 17, 2020
I have a nice 1928 King Silver Tone slide (serial # 107,xxx). The slide needs to be repaired. Although the inner slides look pretty good there is just to much friction. No dents in outer slide and inners seem to be straight. So I'm needing some recommendations. Would like to keep the original slide if possible. I'll include some pictures.
Questions
1. To whom would you send this slide to if it was yours? (being the age that it is.)
2. Can the inner slide tubes be replaced if needed.
3. What compatible slides might serve as a replacement if current slide is not fixable?
Thanks in advance for any information given
bbadgerd
Questions
1. To whom would you send this slide to if it was yours? (being the age that it is.)
2. Can the inner slide tubes be replaced if needed.
3. What compatible slides might serve as a replacement if current slide is not fixable?
Thanks in advance for any information given
bbadgerd
- OompaLoompia
- Posts: 122
- Joined: May 22, 2022
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Fantastic condition for a 95 year old horn.
Yes, send it to Ray, he will do whatever it needs.
Yes, send it to Ray, he will do whatever it needs.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Or send it to James Baker, former slide maker for Shire...
<EMAIL email="CustomBrass@gmail.com">CustomBrass@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Birmingham, AL
(205) 540-5468
<EMAIL email="CustomBrass@gmail.com">CustomBrass@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Birmingham, AL
(205) 540-5468
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
- Estraven
- Posts: 122
- Joined: May 05, 2021
I'm trying to see what might be wrong with the inner slide tubes, but nothing seems wrong that would justify tubing replacement. Really good plating, esp. for a 95 y. o. horn. My '38 2B is like that. I would be very hesitant to take that slide apart for any reason.
Have you tried polishing the inside of the outer tubes with the cleaning rod / Wright's Brass Polish method?
(Do my eyes deceive me, or are the stocking sections separate parts?)
On edit: Because of where you are, try Wichita Band Instrument. They are at least within driving distance.
https://www.wichitaband.com/
Have you tried polishing the inside of the outer tubes with the cleaning rod / Wright's Brass Polish method?
(Do my eyes deceive me, or are the stocking sections separate parts?)
On edit: Because of where you are, try Wichita Band Instrument. They are at least within driving distance.
https://www.wichitaband.com/
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Estraven"](Do my eyes deceive me, or are the stocking sections separate parts?)[/quote]
Soldered-on slide stockings. Common at the time.
Soldered-on slide stockings. Common at the time.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Probably nothing wrong except corrosion and old dried lubricant buildup inside the outer tubes - in that span of time it could be multiple styles of oil, cold cream and other stuff. Will probably take a lot of cleaning to get it clean and working well again.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
When did King switch over to having a threaded nut to hold the slide and bell together? All the Kings I have seen with that particular bracing on the inner slide have had a friction fit. Also.....take note that the inner slide braces and cork barrels appear to be silver plated and the outer slide is not. These things make me wonder if parts of this horn are after-market. Nonetheless.....very nice looking instrument! I hope you are able to make it play to your liking.
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
I have a King Silvertone , a little newer than the subject horn.
It has identical serial numbers on the bell section and the slide section.
It has identical serial numbers on the bell section and the slide section.
- bbadgerd
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Nov 17, 2020
As you can see the outer and inner slides have the same matching serial #'s as the bell. See attached picture. Case looks like it could be original. Not sure about the mouthpiece.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I found this page on the hnwhite.com Web Site which pertains to your horn:
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
The matching serial numbers is noted. But….why is the inner (non slide tube parts) in silver plate and the outer slide is lacquer or raw brass? My suspicion is that some custom work has been done on the horn.
If the entire slide was originally in satin silver, the silver on the outer slide could have been removed by a shop. That was a common practice in many overhaul shops through the 1980s. In the 1990s, the EPA made it tough to use and maintain silver stripping agents. Thus, the practice became more rare.
If the entire slide was originally in satin silver, the silver on the outer slide could have been removed by a shop. That was a common practice in many overhaul shops through the 1980s. In the 1990s, the EPA made it tough to use and maintain silver stripping agents. Thus, the practice became more rare.
- Estraven
- Posts: 122
- Joined: May 05, 2021
The H. N. White website was/is listing for sale two Silvertones from this timeframe with brass outer slides.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale ... 20Info.jpg">https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale%20Items/115279/115279%20ST%20TB%20Sales%20Info.jpg</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale ... 20Info.jpg">https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale%20Items/115279/115279%20ST%20TB%20Sales%20Info.jpg</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale ... 20Info.jpg">https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale%20Items/115279/115279%20ST%20TB%20Sales%20Info.jpg</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale ... 20Info.jpg">https://www.hnwhite.com/King/For%20Sale%20Items/115279/115279%20ST%20TB%20Sales%20Info.jpg</LINK_TEXT>
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
Per the serial numbers, the slide is original to the horn.
In 1928, the Silvertone slide had lacquered brass outers.
In later years, Silvertone outers were silver plated.
In 1928, King slide receivers were friction fit.
Threaded slide receivers did not appear until the mid 1930's.
The OP's horn has had a threaded receiver retrofit sometime in its life.
A big PLUS for the horn.
In 1928, the Silvertone slide had lacquered brass outers.
In later years, Silvertone outers were silver plated.
In 1928, King slide receivers were friction fit.
Threaded slide receivers did not appear until the mid 1930's.
The OP's horn has had a threaded receiver retrofit sometime in its life.
A big PLUS for the horn.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Definitely nice to have the threaded slide receiver!
If this horn were mine... I would give it a good cleaning and get the slide to move as well as it can - with straightening, alignment, and ding removal. And if still not satisfied, replace the inner tubes. Outers appear to be in good shape.
If this horn were mine... I would give it a good cleaning and get the slide to move as well as it can - with straightening, alignment, and ding removal. And if still not satisfied, replace the inner tubes. Outers appear to be in good shape.
- jthomas105
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
Take it to Larson Music on 63rd there in OKC. There is a guy there named Colter, he works with my brother there in their repair shop. He is a trombone player and apprenticed with Eric Swanson, he is one of the go to guys in DFW. Get his opinion of can and should be done.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="Estraven"]I'm trying to see what might be wrong with the inner slide tubes, but nothing seems wrong that would justify tubing replacement. Really good plating, esp. for a 95 y. o. horn. My '38 2B is like that. I would be very hesitant to take that slide apart for any reason.[/quote]
Those tubes are not chrome plated. Looks like solid nickel silver stockings soldered onto nickel plated brass, and I see a lot of wear on the brass parts. It has been polished, but you can see the yellow color on sections of the inner tubes.
Those tubes are not chrome plated. Looks like solid nickel silver stockings soldered onto nickel plated brass, and I see a lot of wear on the brass parts. It has been polished, but you can see the yellow color on sections of the inner tubes.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
At what point do you have to replace inner and outer slide tubes?
- Estraven
- Posts: 122
- Joined: May 05, 2021
[quote="brassmedic"]… It has been polished, but you can see the yellow color on sections of the inner tubes.[/quote]
On closer inspection, I see what you mean. Time to take it to a tech.
On closer inspection, I see what you mean. Time to take it to a tech.
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]At what point do you have to replace inner and outer slide tubes?[/quote]
A complex question with no simple answer.
My criteria.... YMMV.
1. Hold the assembled trombone level, and slowly tilt the front downward. At 15 to 20 degrees from horizontal, the slide should travel by gravity for its full length. If not, it has a mechanical problem.
2. Remove the slide and hold it vertically with a thumb on top of each tube. It should fall smoothly to seventh position in about five to seven seconds. Too slow might indicate a mechanical problem, and too fast would be air leakage. Those tests alone don't tell you when to replace tubes, but they do show when to take the slide to a good tech for a full diagnostic, as a poorly aligned or damaged slide will wear prematurely.
A complex question with no simple answer.
My criteria.... YMMV.
1. Hold the assembled trombone level, and slowly tilt the front downward. At 15 to 20 degrees from horizontal, the slide should travel by gravity for its full length. If not, it has a mechanical problem.
2. Remove the slide and hold it vertically with a thumb on top of each tube. It should fall smoothly to seventh position in about five to seven seconds. Too slow might indicate a mechanical problem, and too fast would be air leakage. Those tests alone don't tell you when to replace tubes, but they do show when to take the slide to a good tech for a full diagnostic, as a poorly aligned or damaged slide will wear prematurely.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Are Oberloh and/or Slide Dr ordinarily difficult to get a hold of?
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="jthomas105"]Take it to Larson Music on 63rd there in OKC. There is a guy there named Colter, he works with my brother there in their repair shop. He is a trombone player and apprenticed with Eric Swanson, he is one of the go to guys in DFW. Get his opinion of can and should be done.[/quote]
Larsen Music.
Colter Weatherholz does terrific slide work here in OKC. He's an excellent trombone player himself and is very meticulous about slide work.
Don, the other repair guy is also a great guy, even though he plays the trumpet. :lol:
--Andy in OKC
Edit: Don't want to downplay Bruce Kitzel at Edmond Music. Bruce is also an excellent trombone player and does meticulous work. He is often "up to his eyeballs" in repair work.
Larsen Music.
Colter Weatherholz does terrific slide work here in OKC. He's an excellent trombone player himself and is very meticulous about slide work.
Don, the other repair guy is also a great guy, even though he plays the trumpet. :lol:
--Andy in OKC
Edit: Don't want to downplay Bruce Kitzel at Edmond Music. Bruce is also an excellent trombone player and does meticulous work. He is often "up to his eyeballs" in repair work.