Bach 16 mixed brass slide?
- TexasTBone
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Aug 03, 2021
I recently picked up a corporation 16 (not 16M) made in 1966 or 67 and noticed something everyone I've talked to about it says is weird - It has one yellow brass outer slide tube and one gold brass outer tube. There are no indications either outer tube has been replaced. Is this normal construction or some modification the original owner could have ordered from the factory? This is my first serious Bach horn, so I am not knowledgeable of their historical manufacturing details.
- Slidehamilton
- Posts: 176
- Joined: May 05, 2018
That's funny, I have a slide like that too! It's a NY 16. The crook is also gold brass. The shoulder pipe is also gold brass. I have no idea why. I don't know the story.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
It might be worth getting the shop card (if there is one) from the factory. You might at least find out if those horns were made that way, or did parts get changed when some repairs were done. That info might not be there, but it's worth a try to look into it.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- Slidehamilton
- Posts: 176
- Joined: May 05, 2018
How does one get a shop card?
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Slidehamilton"]How does one get a shop card?[/quote]
There’s another thread here called ‘are shop cards still available’ or something like that where the current procedure is, but if your serial number is over ~6300 it will not exist.
As for construction, in the earlier days, they were mostly both more gold brass looking tubes with a yellow crook. I would look at a single yellow tube as a hint that it may have been replaced, and if it was done really well 40+ years ago, how would we know today? But with the earlier Bach shop being more like a boutique shop today, it could have been done intentionally as well.
As I blow my old Bach that I know had a crook replaced (no longer has the NY/MtV ferrules)… if it blows good, it is good.
Cheers,
Andy
There’s another thread here called ‘are shop cards still available’ or something like that where the current procedure is, but if your serial number is over ~6300 it will not exist.
As for construction, in the earlier days, they were mostly both more gold brass looking tubes with a yellow crook. I would look at a single yellow tube as a hint that it may have been replaced, and if it was done really well 40+ years ago, how would we know today? But with the earlier Bach shop being more like a boutique shop today, it could have been done intentionally as well.
As I blow my old Bach that I know had a crook replaced (no longer has the NY/MtV ferrules)… if it blows good, it is good.
Cheers,
Andy
- TexasTBone
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Aug 03, 2021
[quote="elmsandr"]As for construction, in the earlier days, they were mostly both more gold brass looking tubes with a yellow crook. I would look at a single yellow tube as a hint that it may have been replaced, and if it was done really well 40+ years ago, how would we know today? But with the earlier Bach shop being more like a boutique shop today, it could have been done intentionally as well.[/quote]
I pulled out a jeweler's loupe to inspect the connections at the ends of both tubes, and if one tube was replaced it was factory quality work.
I pulled out a jeweler's loupe to inspect the connections at the ends of both tubes, and if one tube was replaced it was factory quality work.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
This happened a couple of times by accident at Shires when I was working there. Before the tubes are polished it can be difficult to tell which alloy they are.
It's also possible that in 1966/67 they were using up whatever stock they had before ordering anything to replace it.
It's also possible that in 1966/67 they were using up whatever stock they had before ordering anything to replace it.
- octavposaune
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Jul 04, 2018
Elkhart production was much sloppier than Mount Vernon. Also, gold brass handslide tubes weren't an option in Elkhart production, so a leftover MV tube could absolutely be used in Early production as no parts went to waste.
In the 1980s and 90s you could order gold brass F attachment tubing for 36-42 wraps which also came with gold brass neckpipes and sometimes tuning slides.... I have seen bits of gold brass f attachment tubing on random 42BOs from that era.
I have a 10" diameter french bead MV 50B the shop card said it had a 9.5" bell. The only consistent thing with Bach is inconsistency.
Benn
In the 1980s and 90s you could order gold brass F attachment tubing for 36-42 wraps which also came with gold brass neckpipes and sometimes tuning slides.... I have seen bits of gold brass f attachment tubing on random 42BOs from that era.
I have a 10" diameter french bead MV 50B the shop card said it had a 9.5" bell. The only consistent thing with Bach is inconsistency.
Benn
- TromboneMonkey
- Posts: 271
- Joined: May 11, 2018
I have an Elkhart which has a bell which is much darker than the slide tubes, but which I still believe is yellow. Maybe it's the famous "bach brass" alloy which is talked about.
In any case, I speculate the differences in alloy between the bell and the tubes on my horn are because they sourced different parts (or metals for different parts) from different places. Could it be that your tubes are the "same" alloy but that just look different due to inconsistency?
In any case, I speculate the differences in alloy between the bell and the tubes on my horn are because they sourced different parts (or metals for different parts) from different places. Could it be that your tubes are the "same" alloy but that just look different due to inconsistency?
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Another thing to consider is that raw nickel-silver will sometimes tarnish to a very even-looking orange/gold color. I had a customer who was convinced he had a Holton trombone with gold brass outer slide tubes. It turned out to be the normal nickel tubes, raw with a perfectly even reddish-gold patina. I had to gently buff a small section to convince him that it was nickel.
Not saying that is what is going on here. However, I have witnessed several situations in which people thought they had one alloy and tarnish, patina, lacquer tint, etc…. was disguising the true alloy. I have been fooled before!
Not saying that is what is going on here. However, I have witnessed several situations in which people thought they had one alloy and tarnish, patina, lacquer tint, etc…. was disguising the true alloy. I have been fooled before!