Earl Williams trombones and where to find them
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
I've recently acquired my first Williams trombone from Noah. And what can I say: It's an absolute dream. Burbank Bob Williams Model 6 (Serial: 30XX). Probably the best (jazz) horn I ever had.
As I really like medium bore trombones, especially for the theatre and musical work, I'd be over the moon to find a Williams 9 (or 8) now. I know, those are basically never available because everyone wants to keep theirs. But if one would be available/you're searching for one, where would you check? So far I can think of Noah (BrassArk), Quinn, BrassExchange, Classifieds in here and eBay of course. Any other suggestions where to check? I don't feel like those would pop up at Dillon.
Maybe this could also work as a thread for when Williams trombones are available similar to the long Williams thread on the old version of TromboneChat?
Thanks for your input!
As I really like medium bore trombones, especially for the theatre and musical work, I'd be over the moon to find a Williams 9 (or 8) now. I know, those are basically never available because everyone wants to keep theirs. But if one would be available/you're searching for one, where would you check? So far I can think of Noah (BrassArk), Quinn, BrassExchange, Classifieds in here and eBay of course. Any other suggestions where to check? I don't feel like those would pop up at Dillon.
Maybe this could also work as a thread for when Williams trombones are available similar to the long Williams thread on the old version of TromboneChat?
Thanks for your input!
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
Erikon, the Elbblech store which is nearby for both of us, has had some in the past. But I guess that's an option you already have on your list. (Although I find the prices a bit over the top sometimes). Vintage trombone NL is a good small shop, but I don't think he ever had a Williams yet. Dan Gotshall got his from Noah I think?
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="MStarke"]Erikon, the Elbblech store which is nearby for both of us, has had some in the past. But I guess that's an option you already have on your list. (Although I find the prices a bit over the top sometimes). Vintage trombone NL is a good small shop, but I don't think he ever had a Williams yet. Dan Gotshall got his from Noah I think?[/quote]
Yeah, Felix had a few Williams horns already at Elbblech. Definitely very pricey there, but still a good addition. If I remember correctly he had one or two 4s and a few more 6s. And there was that Franken Williams 10. Haven't seen a Model 8 or 9 there. Vintage Trombone has some nice stuff, but also not sure if they would have a Williams. I feel like Williams horns don't have a 'community' in Netherlands. In Europe it's mainly Sweden and a bit in Germany, from what I've heard.
Dan got his Earl Williams 6 from Noah, so did Klaus Heidenreich with his Burbank 6 if I remember correctly. Sebastian Hoffmann has 3 Williams horns (two model 6 and a model 7(!)). I have to ask him where he got those. So, Hamburg is pretty strong with Williams actually, but it's mainly model 6 horns. Haven't seen any 8 or 9 over here, not anywhere in Germany. Hopefully I don't have to travel to Sweden or US to get the chance to play one :shuffle:
Yeah, Felix had a few Williams horns already at Elbblech. Definitely very pricey there, but still a good addition. If I remember correctly he had one or two 4s and a few more 6s. And there was that Franken Williams 10. Haven't seen a Model 8 or 9 there. Vintage Trombone has some nice stuff, but also not sure if they would have a Williams. I feel like Williams horns don't have a 'community' in Netherlands. In Europe it's mainly Sweden and a bit in Germany, from what I've heard.
Dan got his Earl Williams 6 from Noah, so did Klaus Heidenreich with his Burbank 6 if I remember correctly. Sebastian Hoffmann has 3 Williams horns (two model 6 and a model 7(!)). I have to ask him where he got those. So, Hamburg is pretty strong with Williams actually, but it's mainly model 6 horns. Haven't seen any 8 or 9 over here, not anywhere in Germany. Hopefully I don't have to travel to Sweden or US to get the chance to play one :shuffle:
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Just saw a Williams on eBay last week - it sold (buy it now) within a couple of days.
JS
JS
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]Just saw a Williams on eBay last week - it sold (buy it now) within a couple of days.
JS[/quote]
Darn, must have missed that one. Do you know which model?
JS[/quote]
Darn, must have missed that one. Do you know which model?
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
No - pretty old (maybe Wallace/Williams) and it had tuning in the slide - small bore for sure.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.[/quote]
I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in :good: thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.[/quote]
I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in :good: thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="222509" time="1697148829" user_id="3695">
If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.[/quote]
I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in :good: thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.
</QUOTE>
Not a problem at all. J. Landress in NYC had a Williams/Wallace available not too long ago, so that might be another shop to keep your eyes on. Reverb app is also a good place as well.
If you’re looking for an 8/9, Noah has been the most consistent person/shop to have them available.
I only recall seeing a Williams 6 years back at Dillon’s.
Some other shops you can keep an eye on are Horn Guys, Horn Stash, Baltimore Brass.[/quote]
I was hoping some of the Williams experts would chime in :good: thanks for that input! Much appreciated. Horn Stash was completely new to me and I thought Baltimore had closed its doors, but good to see they're still active. Will add those to my list and put my hopes on Noah.
</QUOTE>
Not a problem at all. J. Landress in NYC had a Williams/Wallace available not too long ago, so that might be another shop to keep your eyes on. Reverb app is also a good place as well.
- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
I'll do my best to manifest a model 8 or 9 for you Erik. They are fairly rare but LA probably still has a few Williams treasures in closets and attics.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]No - pretty old (maybe Wallace/Williams) and it had tuning in the slide - small bore for sure.[/quote]
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256251871004
It's post-Wallace, but has the fancy floral engraving (and likely still the Williams-Wallace design). Condition doesn't look too bad, with the exception of end crook.
The Wallace-style horns just don't attract the same level of interest that the post-WWII Williams do.
Know what you are willing to pay, have that amount (plus a cushion) ready to go, and don't hesitate when the time comes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256251871004
It's post-Wallace, but has the fancy floral engraving (and likely still the Williams-Wallace design). Condition doesn't look too bad, with the exception of end crook.
The Wallace-style horns just don't attract the same level of interest that the post-WWII Williams do.
Know what you are willing to pay, have that amount (plus a cushion) ready to go, and don't hesitate when the time comes.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
.475 bore! I wonder if that's accurate.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"].475 bore! I wonder if that's accurate.[/quote]
Doubtful, given that it's marked as an "M" size. I'd expect at least .491", probably larger.
Most people don't know how to measure the bore of a trombone.
Doubtful, given that it's marked as an "M" size. I'd expect at least .491", probably larger.
Most people don't know how to measure the bore of a trombone.
- Fidbone
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
I’ve had 3 Williams 6’s in the past, funnily enough when I lived in Hamburg. Ended up selling them all for silly prices!
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück :hi:
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück :hi:
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="slipmo"]I'll do my best to manifest a model 8 or 9 for you Erik. They are fairly rare but LA probably still has a few Williams treasures in closets and attics.[/quote]
Thanks a lot, Noah! I'll make sure to check your website regularly ;)
Thanks a lot, Noah! I'll make sure to check your website regularly ;)
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="Fidbone"]I’ve had 3 Williams 6’s in the past, funnily enough when I lived in Hamburg. Ended up selling them all for silly prices!
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück :hi:[/quote]
Thanks Chris! I think Ingo convinced us all to get those horns :lol: and yes, all great players and always a lot of fun to play with them.
And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it :clever: :lol:
They do seem to be the trend at the moment since Dan, Klaus and Sebastian now play them.
All three are great players and good friends from my Hamburg days.
Viel Glück :hi:[/quote]
Thanks Chris! I think Ingo convinced us all to get those horns :lol: and yes, all great players and always a lot of fun to play with them.
And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it :clever: :lol:
- Fidbone
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]
And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it :clever: :lol:[/quote]
They didn’t do it for me to be honest.
Don’t worry I got squillions of Euro’s for them <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d-1f3fb" tseq="1f44d-1f3fb">👍🏻</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f37b" tseq="1f37b">🍻</EMOJI>
And no need to tell you, but you should have kept the horns or at least one of it :clever: :lol:[/quote]
They didn’t do it for me to be honest.
Don’t worry I got squillions of Euro’s for them <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d-1f3fb" tseq="1f44d-1f3fb">👍🏻</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f37b" tseq="1f37b">🍻</EMOJI>
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
Seems like there are not many Williams horns around lately in general, no matter which model. When I was reading through the huge Williams thread of the old ttf, I got the impression that a horn pops up pretty regularly every now and then. But I've been observing the market for months already and I probably saw like 2 horns with one of them ended up in my hands. I guess people stick with their horns when they have one, knowing they have a small treasure to call their own.
Or are there any Williams news recently that I missed?
Or are there any Williams news recently that I missed?
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Nothing new on the Williams front. I’ve been keeping an eye out as well and like you, haven’t seen anything pop up in awhile now.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I will probably be selling one of my 6's at some point.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x4K2hx5bSuS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=SBuI80tfS-2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>
This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.
I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.
This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.
I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
Wow! Stunning horn! Unfortunately seller is not happy about shipping to Europe, but I will follow that auction.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
That's the bore size of an 8.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
.522 I guess. If I remember correctly from the Williams thread, the tools for the 8 and 9 were .520
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Circa 1975 price list.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Interesting, inflation adjusted that’s about the current price for a boutique
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
<LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=33704">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=33704</LINK_TEXT>
Just posted in the classifieds! Great price for an 8!
Just posted in the classifieds! Great price for an 8!
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers :( probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers :( probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.[/quote]
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]<QUOTE author="EriKon" post_id="226095" time="1700901243" user_id="15077">
One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers :( probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.[/quote]
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)
</QUOTE>
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D
One day of not being around and already missing out on a great horn. But again, just US buyers :( probably going to be hard to find an 8 or 9 and someone who's willing to ship overseas besides of Noah.[/quote]
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)
</QUOTE>
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="226101" time="1700920956" user_id="3695">
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)[/quote]
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D
</QUOTE>
I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>
I can assure you that it’s going to a good home. ;)[/quote]
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D
</QUOTE>
I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]<QUOTE author="EriKon" post_id="226104" time="1700928457" user_id="15077">
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D[/quote]
I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>
</QUOTE>
<EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI> Well, congrats and Merry Christmas in that case! :D Looking forward to hear about your impression of the horn!
I'm sure about that! ;) your home? :D[/quote]
I like to think of it as an early Christmas gift to myself <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>
</QUOTE>
<EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI> Well, congrats and Merry Christmas in that case! :D Looking forward to hear about your impression of the horn!
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
Another one in the classifieds! Earl LA 6!
<LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=33739&sid=51a202dd6a433 ... a9ca8b9a52">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=33739&sid=51a202dd6a43325bd28612a9ca8b9a52</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=33739&sid=51a202dd6a433 ... a9ca8b9a52">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=33739&sid=51a202dd6a43325bd28612a9ca8b9a52</LINK_TEXT>
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/266506562292?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x4K2hx5bSuS&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=SBuI80tfS-2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>
This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.
I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.[/quote]
So did anyone here end up with this Duda 8?
This looks like a marvelous Tulsa horn built by the late John Duda.
I know Richard loved his Duda built horns and I suspect this one will surely please.[/quote]
So did anyone here end up with this Duda 8?
- onetrombone
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Apr 10, 2019
That Duda 8 is one beautiful horn!
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="onetrombone"]That Duda 8 is one beautiful horn![/quote]
It sure is! I’m sure the new owner is happy with it.
It sure is! I’m sure the new owner is happy with it.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.[/quote]
Already finished that project? How does it play?
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.[/quote]
Already finished that project? How does it play?
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="227813" time="1702600080" user_id="3695">
Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.[/quote]
Already finished that project? How does it play?
</QUOTE>
Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.
Picked up a Donelson, Tennessee 8 bell from JB3 over the weekend. This was a complete bell section I had awhile back before I sold it to James. He swapped this bell with another Tennessee bell he preferred a little more. The plan is to attach this bell to a Bach 42BO chassis that I have.
The group photo from L-R is an Earl bell section, Jay’s, and Bob’s. All model 8.[/quote]
Already finished that project? How does it play?
</QUOTE>
Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]<QUOTE author="EriKon" post_id="231671" time="1705785168" user_id="15077">
Already finished that project? How does it play?[/quote]
Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.
</QUOTE>
I see! Fingers crossed it works out. Happy to see a picture once it's done ;)
Already finished that project? How does it play?[/quote]
Negative. Haven’t had the chance to drop the horn off to my local tech. Hoping to have it done by/before spring break.
</QUOTE>
I see! Fingers crossed it works out. Happy to see a picture once it's done ;)
- MrWinkie
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Oct 25, 2023
There is a gentleman in Portland, Oregon USA who currently has four Williams trombones for sale:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg ... 02818.html">https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/d/portland-major-trombone-collection-for/7719102818.html</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg ... 02818.html">https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/d/portland-major-trombone-collection-for/7719102818.html</LINK_TEXT>
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
Wow! Drew, I think you have to go to Portland for a short vacation ;)
But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.
But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]Wow! Drew, I think you have to go to Portland for a short vacation ;)
But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.[/quote]
That is quite the collection! But this is me currently.
But 8 grands for a Williams 4? That one must be in pristine condition then even if it is a quite early Earl horn.[/quote]
That is quite the collection! But this is me currently.
- PanicSlim
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Apr 06, 2022
I had just posted a message to Drew before I saw this thread. He’d have right of first refusal, but I have probably the last John Duda W6 made that I’m inclined to sell. Have about $3500 invested. Duda (referred by Williams expert the late John Noxon) did such a masterful job replacing inners on my original Earl Williams 6 that I had him make a spare slide. He put in his own lead pipe which seemed to me beat out the original slide with either the original EW6 or Herrick lead pipes that came with that horn. Duda eventually agreed to make a bell section for me so I’d have two complete horns. I waited a couple years for the thing and had it just before his demise. A great loss. The bell section stamped JRD W6 on the bell throat (in the manner of EW). I think I’ll keep the original W6, it’s a little heavier than standard W6 bell according to Duda (I sent it to him when selecting slide receivers from his stock of original Earl Williams parts), but they both play the same to me. The Duda 6 is possibly a bit thinner, livelier, projecting, better for lead work? Pictures on request.
Jim
Jim
- Chazzer69
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
There is a Donelson Williams 4 on eBay that BAC has jacked up. :roll: The bell might be salvageable.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9travZ_4Rn2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=irrwcyjgrae&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9travZ_4Rn2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=irrwcyjgrae&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
[quote="Chazzer69"]There is a Donelson Williams 4 on eBay that BAC has jacked up. :roll: The bell might be salvageable.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9travZ_4Rn2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=irrwcyjgrae&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I don’t think that’s too crazy of a mod. If the instrument was badly damaged I would rather it be playable than to be in original shape and in poor condition. This is one of the more “tasteful” mods from BAC. Some of the stuff that come out of the factory is really wacky stuff
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/296209237315?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9travZ_4Rn2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=irrwcyjgrae&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I don’t think that’s too crazy of a mod. If the instrument was badly damaged I would rather it be playable than to be in original shape and in poor condition. This is one of the more “tasteful” mods from BAC. Some of the stuff that come out of the factory is really wacky stuff
- Chazzer69
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
I'm probably just subconsciously mad cuz I don't have the $3100 to buy it! :lol: :weep:
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Elow"]I don’t think that’s too crazy of a mod. If the instrument was badly damaged I would rather it be playable than to be in original shape and in poor condition. This is one of the more “tasteful” mods from BAC. Some of the stuff that come out of the factory is really wacky stuff[/quote]
It might not be a mod at all. It's possible this was built around a leftover Donelson 4 bell. The slide is .500" bore, so the tubes aren't original. Some of the other parts are clearly NOT Williams (like the tuning slide brace and upper bell brace), while others could be Williams or BAC (cork barrel brace and cork barrels).
Given the cost of putting something like this together, the asking price isn't entirely unreasonable.
It might not be a mod at all. It's possible this was built around a leftover Donelson 4 bell. The slide is .500" bore, so the tubes aren't original. Some of the other parts are clearly NOT Williams (like the tuning slide brace and upper bell brace), while others could be Williams or BAC (cork barrel brace and cork barrels).
Given the cost of putting something like this together, the asking price isn't entirely unreasonable.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
To me it looks like BAC really just used the bell flare and everything else is different with that little pictures that basically don't show anything. Or am I missing something?
- TromboneMonkey
- Posts: 271
- Joined: May 11, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]To me it looks like BAC really just used the bell flare and everything else is different with that little pictures that basically don't show anything. Or am I missing something?[/quote]
You're probably correct in that the flare is the only remaining part from the original. The tuning slide and bell brace assembly don't look anything like the ones on my Donnelson 4.
In any case if it plays well it's a fair price.
You're probably correct in that the flare is the only remaining part from the original. The tuning slide and bell brace assembly don't look anything like the ones on my Donnelson 4.
In any case if it plays well it's a fair price.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
This week we have an all Williams tenor tb section at NDR Bigband :good: :D
Drew, we need one of your Williams 10s for Ingo on btb ;)
Drew, we need one of your Williams 10s for Ingo on btb ;)
- guitrhythm
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Dec 13, 2023
As a relatively new member to Trombone Chat, this is my first post. I believe I’m probably a bit of an odd duck here as I primarily perform as a guitarist (…please don’t hold that against me) but have retained a love and appreciation for trombone as it was my first instrument and I still continue to play in community concert bands and the occasional jump swing gig locally.
I have appreciated everyone’s input, insight and knowledge on Trombone Chat and have a bit of a story around a Williams trombone that I just stumbled onto, since this thread is about where they can be found.
While at my local guitar shop (which also does very limited band instrument rental) I spotted an old coffin style case that simply said Williams trombone on it. The case was covered in layers of dust and just sitting on a shelf where it had been stored (I was later told) for about the last 7 years. I asked to see it, as I had recently been interested in finding a small bore horn (I usually play a medium bore Shires)
Turns out it is a Williams Model 6. It just is engraved with Made By Earl Williams in L.A. California, no fancy engraving beyond that. There is a patent number on the hand brace, a serial number in low 8xx, and it has the funny little wraparound water valve on the end crook. It appears to be yellow brass with a 7 5/8” bell. It’s in very good condition with only some minimal lacquer loss on the horn, mostly on the neck pipe. I played it there in the shop and while it was in some need of serious cleaning it sounded quite nice. I could tell it was a good horn but really didn’t know too much about it.
Talking to the manager, I inquired about his interest in a trade for a guitar I needed to move. He was most enthusiastic and ultimately agreed to trade straight across, as they get very little interest in horns and a ton of interest in guitars.
I got it home, gave it a good bath, did some serious cleaning rod work on the outer slide tubes. The inner slide tubes are beautiful with no noticeable plating wear at all. Just needed cleaning. Plays really clear and .
I’m figuring now, from what I’ve read in the the Williams threads I’ve since explored, it could be most likely from the 50’s. Does that sound about right? Does anyone have any further insight into what I might have here? Might be quite a gem. Maybe more horn than I bargained for.
I have appreciated everyone’s input, insight and knowledge on Trombone Chat and have a bit of a story around a Williams trombone that I just stumbled onto, since this thread is about where they can be found.
While at my local guitar shop (which also does very limited band instrument rental) I spotted an old coffin style case that simply said Williams trombone on it. The case was covered in layers of dust and just sitting on a shelf where it had been stored (I was later told) for about the last 7 years. I asked to see it, as I had recently been interested in finding a small bore horn (I usually play a medium bore Shires)
Turns out it is a Williams Model 6. It just is engraved with Made By Earl Williams in L.A. California, no fancy engraving beyond that. There is a patent number on the hand brace, a serial number in low 8xx, and it has the funny little wraparound water valve on the end crook. It appears to be yellow brass with a 7 5/8” bell. It’s in very good condition with only some minimal lacquer loss on the horn, mostly on the neck pipe. I played it there in the shop and while it was in some need of serious cleaning it sounded quite nice. I could tell it was a good horn but really didn’t know too much about it.
Talking to the manager, I inquired about his interest in a trade for a guitar I needed to move. He was most enthusiastic and ultimately agreed to trade straight across, as they get very little interest in horns and a ton of interest in guitars.
I got it home, gave it a good bath, did some serious cleaning rod work on the outer slide tubes. The inner slide tubes are beautiful with no noticeable plating wear at all. Just needed cleaning. Plays really clear and .
I’m figuring now, from what I’ve read in the the Williams threads I’ve since explored, it could be most likely from the 50’s. Does that sound about right? Does anyone have any further insight into what I might have here? Might be quite a gem. Maybe more horn than I bargained for.
- DaveAshley
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Aug 01, 2018
SCORE!
Sounds like an early 6, probably from the mid to late 50's. Average sale price is something like $3000-3500. It wouldn't be hard to sell, if that's what you want to do.
It's a special design that, in my opinion, demands a disciplined player. My Burbank-built Model 6 has loads of personality. Sometimes it makes fun of me. :frown:
Sounds like an early 6, probably from the mid to late 50's. Average sale price is something like $3000-3500. It wouldn't be hard to sell, if that's what you want to do.
It's a special design that, in my opinion, demands a disciplined player. My Burbank-built Model 6 has loads of personality. Sometimes it makes fun of me. :frown:
- guitrhythm
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Dec 13, 2023
Thanks for your insight. Interesting that you say it takes a disciplined player. Wish I was better in that particular respect. My horn can make fun of me just about any time. Ha!
You mention it it's a special design and I wonder if you meant all Model 6 Williams or specifically ones from that particular era of them?
You mention it it's a special design and I wonder if you meant all Model 6 Williams or specifically ones from that particular era of them?
- Chazzer69
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Williams 8 on Facebook - Trombone Marketplace. Says it has a Meinlschmidt valve section and a Bach 42 slide. If anyone is interested. I can't seem to steal a link for it.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
For the guys who play or have played a Williams model 8: What mouthpieces do/did you use?
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?
- ajtehoke
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Oct 02, 2024
i have a WILLIAMS trombone for sale. i font know how much they sell for, nor do i know anything about the instrument itself... can anyone help ??
<EMAIL email="atehoke@gmail.com">atehoke@gmail.com</EMAIL>
<EMAIL email="atehoke@gmail.com">atehoke@gmail.com</EMAIL>
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="EriKon"]For the guys who play or have played a Williams model 8: What mouthpieces do/did you use?
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?[/quote]
I have had the same experience, not being able to figure out what works on an 8. If I had one I could spend time on it... but I don't. Try a #2, the #4 doesn't seem to focus right.
I've had the same issue trying the K&H Bart van Lier horns, especially the weird .512 bore. Nothing seems to work well.
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?[/quote]
I have had the same experience, not being able to figure out what works on an 8. If I had one I could spend time on it... but I don't. Try a #2, the #4 doesn't seem to focus right.
I've had the same issue trying the K&H Bart van Lier horns, especially the weird .512 bore. Nothing seems to work well.
- timbone
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Apr 30, 2018
I probably put this in another post but back in the early 90's I used to visit Art Pearlman who was a clinician/artist for Earl. Art had a set of Williams and that included a double valve bass proto. I played his pigtail (Williams 9?) and to me it was the best trombone I had ever played. Art was a bass trombonist by trade ( Hollywood bowl) but when I met him he was playing lead for Louie Belleson. I'm sure he passed and am curious to where his horns ended up- perhaps Noah Gladstone knows. He had a lot of burt Herrick goodies too. Such a wonderful man and such a learning experience. I would visit him in his garage where he sat and played all day. He got in a bit of trouble in the Hollywood bowl referring to the violin section as fiddle players lol. I still have my Williams and Wallace which became my main horn.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="timbone"]I probably put this in another post but back in the early 90's I used to visit Art Pearlman who was a clinician/artist for Earl. Art had a set of Williams and that included a double valve bass proto. I played his pigtail (Williams 9?) and to me it was the best trombone I had ever played. Art was a bass trombonist by trade ( Hollywood bowl) but when I met him he was playing lead for Louie Belleson. I'm sure he passed and am curious to where his horns ended up- perhaps Noah Gladstone knows. He had a lot of burt Herrick goodies too. Such a wonderful man and such a learning experience. I would visit him in his garage where he sat and played all day. He got in a bit of trouble in the Hollywood bowl referring to the violin section as fiddle players lol. I still have my Williams and Wallace which became my main horn.[/quote]
Not sure about a 9, but I know his 7 (also with pigtail) was acquired by Harold M. and now resides in Sweden with Niclas R.
Not sure about a 9, but I know his 7 (also with pigtail) was acquired by Harold M. and now resides in Sweden with Niclas R.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="Doug Elliott"]<QUOTE author="EriKon" post_id="241927" time="1714662991" user_id="15077">
For the guys who play or have played a Williams model 8: What mouthpieces do/did you use?
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?[/quote]
I have had the same experience, not being able to figure out what works on an 8. If I had one I could spend time on it... but I don't. Try a #2, the #4 doesn't seem to focus right.
I've had the same issue trying the K&H Bart van Lier horns, especially the weird .512 bore. Nothing seems to work well.
</QUOTE>
Thanks Doug! I'll try a #2 shank when I get to it. I think I have one for the D+ cup, so not too far away from E cup. I will update once I got a chance to try.
For the guys who play or have played a Williams model 8: What mouthpieces do/did you use?
I finally got at least a Burbank model 8 by Drew (still and even more looking for a model 9 now!) and I love the horn! But it seems to be very picky with mouthpieces. I tried basically all my small bore mouthpieces with various sizes and what works best by far is the Doug Elliott XT E4 setup. But it sticks out a tiny bit farther than I'm used to. Everything else didn't really work.
Any suggestions? And Doug, if you read this, would be the 4 shank the right choice for that bore size?[/quote]
I have had the same experience, not being able to figure out what works on an 8. If I had one I could spend time on it... but I don't. Try a #2, the #4 doesn't seem to focus right.
I've had the same issue trying the K&H Bart van Lier horns, especially the weird .512 bore. Nothing seems to work well.
</QUOTE>
Thanks Doug! I'll try a #2 shank when I get to it. I think I have one for the D+ cup, so not too far away from E cup. I will update once I got a chance to try.
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
Schmitt's Trombone Shop just did a demo on a Williams 6
<YOUTUBE id="mWf2kZVxvvI" t="188">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWf2kZVxvvI&t=188s</YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE id="mWf2kZVxvvI" t="188">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWf2kZVxvvI&t=188s</YOUTUBE>
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
There's a lovely looking Los Angeles Model 6 at Noahs shop BrassArk for a fair price imo. Not sure if it's still available because it says "sale pending" but who knows.