Harmon mutes
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
I've owned three harmon mutes. A Jo-Ral for tenor, and one each of Windy City tenor and bass. None of them will stay in the bell. They always fall out. So what's a good harmon mute brand that will actually stay in? Or do I have to make adjustments with the corks?
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
I find using the Harmon brand itself has been the most reliable mute for me - <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Alu ... eoQAvD_BwE">https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Aluminum-Trombone-Wow-Wow-Mute-360159-360159000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us¤cy=usd&source=TWWRAH4BD&gclid=CjwKCAjwv-2pBhB-EiwAtsQZFH0x1gDBKg4roSKcA1mkcfdD2CoAH-qLyHnBvMZOhQF1gTAzmfewwhoCWeoQAvD_BwE</LINK_TEXT>
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
As it's all of them, and not horn specific... have you tried fogging the bell before you screw them in?
(If you need to work out where the cork is making contact, a very light chalk or 6B pencil line down the cork will show where it grabs... if it's really just the leading edge digging in, then tapering it down for a longer contact area should help.)
(If you need to work out where the cork is making contact, a very light chalk or 6B pencil line down the cork will show where it grabs... if it's really just the leading edge digging in, then tapering it down for a longer contact area should help.)
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
What horns are you having the problem with? I had a lot of trouble getting a Jo-Ral Harmon to fit in my Shires 1G bell (mounted on a Yamaha 682) but it fit my King 4B just fine. The Harmon brand Harmon fit my small bores but the corks were way too small for my symphonic horns.
Don't have any Bass Harmons to check.
Don't have any Bass Harmons to check.
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
[quote="BGuttman"]What horns are you having the problem with? I had a lot of trouble getting a Jo-Ral Harmon to fit in my Shires 1G bell (mounted on a Yamaha 682) but it fit my King 4B just fine. The Harmon brand Harmon fit my small bores but the corks were way too small for my symphonic horns.
Don't have any Bass Harmons to check.[/quote]
I play Shires. My friend also has trouble with her Harmon mute as well, and she plays one of the Yamaha Xeno models.
Don't have any Bass Harmons to check.[/quote]
I play Shires. My friend also has trouble with her Harmon mute as well, and she plays one of the Yamaha Xeno models.
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
[quote="WilliamLang"]I find using the Harmon brand itself has been the most reliable mute for me - <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Alu ... eoQAvD_BwE">https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Aluminum-Trombone-Wow-Wow-Mute-360159-360159000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us¤cy=usd&source=TWWRAH4BD&gclid=CjwKCAjwv-2pBhB-EiwAtsQZFH0x1gDBKg4roSKcA1mkcfdD2CoAH-qLyHnBvMZOhQF1gTAzmfewwhoCWeoQAvD_BwE</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I'll give this one a try. Did it work well in the Shires that you used to play?
I'll give this one a try. Did it work well in the Shires that you used to play?
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
I switch between a Harmon brand, JoRal, and an Ulven.
I find the Harmon brand and Ulven stay in easiest.
I really like the JoRal for stemless stuff, but have had huge issues with it falling out (even has a giant dent from falling out on stage at Carnegie). Truck I learned (I think from Alex Iles) that solved the issue is every few months I put some cork grease on the corks of any of my mutes and spin in in the bell.
That little coating gives all the mutes a bit more grip and also keeps them from squeaking on the way out. Works super well- put my hand on the Harmon the other day to wah it and realized it was in at a pretty weird angle and was still holding ok.
I find the Harmon brand and Ulven stay in easiest.
I really like the JoRal for stemless stuff, but have had huge issues with it falling out (even has a giant dent from falling out on stage at Carnegie). Truck I learned (I think from Alex Iles) that solved the issue is every few months I put some cork grease on the corks of any of my mutes and spin in in the bell.
That little coating gives all the mutes a bit more grip and also keeps them from squeaking on the way out. Works super well- put my hand on the Harmon the other day to wah it and realized it was in at a pretty weird angle and was still holding ok.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Ullvén stays in the bell. It is a GREAT Harmon style mute.
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
+2 incredible mute. Tried one out for fun/annoyance at the price. Knew as soon as I played a note I was buying it.
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
I will definitely try the cork grease for all of my mutes, and perhaps I'll look for the Ulven harmon mute as well.
- officermayo
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Jun 09, 2021
From Jazz Anecdotes by Bill Crow.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
For the Ullvén, both the Lindberg version and the classic version are great. They also come with different stems you can put in at different depths instead of the cup, to get that Harmon sound that trumpeters like Dizzy get. It's almost unlimited creative options.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I'm very happy with a Best Brass bass trombone harmon. It stays in the bell and sounds and responds great.
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
It's stayed in all three of my horns (Shires, Yamaha, Stevens) quite well.
Looks like I'll have to try out an Ullven soon! I'm found that between Harmon, Jo-Ral, and Trapani (the 3-d printed harmon) that the original Harmon brand had the most interesting/strong overtones (which you can play around with easily by lifting one finger at a time off the stem.) Mattie have you tried the Ullven in that manner?
[quote="JeffBone44"]<QUOTE author="WilliamLang" post_id="223648" time="1698431997" user_id="8089">
I find using the Harmon brand itself has been the most reliable mute for me - <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Alu ... eoQAvD_BwE">https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Aluminum-Trombone-Wow-Wow-Mute-360159-360159000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us¤cy=usd&source=TWWRAH4BD&gclid=CjwKCAjwv-2pBhB-EiwAtsQZFH0x1gDBKg4roSKcA1mkcfdD2CoAH-qLyHnBvMZOhQF1gTAzmfewwhoCWeoQAvD_BwE</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I'll give this one a try. Did it work well in the Shires that you used to play?
</QUOTE>
Looks like I'll have to try out an Ullven soon! I'm found that between Harmon, Jo-Ral, and Trapani (the 3-d printed harmon) that the original Harmon brand had the most interesting/strong overtones (which you can play around with easily by lifting one finger at a time off the stem.) Mattie have you tried the Ullven in that manner?
[quote="JeffBone44"]<QUOTE author="WilliamLang" post_id="223648" time="1698431997" user_id="8089">
I find using the Harmon brand itself has been the most reliable mute for me - <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Alu ... eoQAvD_BwE">https://www.wwbw.com/Harmon-E-Model-Aluminum-Trombone-Wow-Wow-Mute-360159-360159000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us¤cy=usd&source=TWWRAH4BD&gclid=CjwKCAjwv-2pBhB-EiwAtsQZFH0x1gDBKg4roSKcA1mkcfdD2CoAH-qLyHnBvMZOhQF1gTAzmfewwhoCWeoQAvD_BwE</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I'll give this one a try. Did it work well in the Shires that you used to play?
</QUOTE>
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I never trust any mute, especially a harmon style mute, to stay in the bell by itself. I almost always hold every mute in with my left hand. That also makes it easy and quick to take out.
I do want to check out the Ullven.
I do want to check out the Ullven.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
The Ullvén goes further into the bell than a normal Harmon, so the cork placement is similar to a straight mute. You* definitely need to shave down the cork ring properly, but when you do, it stays in like a straight mute (although because of the price and somewhat hefty weight of the mute I am delicate with it).
William, the effect you get from moving just one finger off the mute cup is just like you say -- the overtone emphasis shifts around in a very obvious and cool way.
When I first saw and heard this mute it was at Lindberg's recital and they played an arrangement of L'Heure Bleue by R. Pöntinen. It ends with a long muted note and Lindberg wiggled his fingers around in front of the cup instead of using vibrato. It created this crazy shimmering effect with the overtones. That whole recital made extensive use of both the Ullvén "chilli" mutes and I was sold. That was before they were even announced as available products and it took a while to figure out who the mute maker even was.
*Edit sp.
William, the effect you get from moving just one finger off the mute cup is just like you say -- the overtone emphasis shifts around in a very obvious and cool way.
When I first saw and heard this mute it was at Lindberg's recital and they played an arrangement of L'Heure Bleue by R. Pöntinen. It ends with a long muted note and Lindberg wiggled his fingers around in front of the cup instead of using vibrato. It created this crazy shimmering effect with the overtones. That whole recital made extensive use of both the Ullvén "chilli" mutes and I was sold. That was before they were even announced as available products and it took a while to figure out who the mute maker even was.
*Edit sp.
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
[quote="WilliamLang"]Mattie have you tried the Ullven in that manner?
[/quote]
Yeah- it's fantastic at that, basically bought it specifically for that content. The specific clarity of the overtones is excellent. As soon as I opened it, I knew I was buying <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>.
It's the only mute that comes close to the mel-o-wah in terms of clarity and reliability of filtered pitch material. It's the same essential frequency responses as the Harmon brand one, but slots extremely accurately. Also it being pretty much flush with the bell is a really small, but surprisingly nice ergonomic shift in long pieces. You should try it! Is loadbang gonna be in LA sometime, am I making that up?, you could give it a play when you're out here.
I was also surprised that, for all the acoustic fixes, it still has that lovely, wonky, super soft low range when stemless.
Ulven also makes on that's intended to be played stemless (doesn't come with one) that was pretty nice- clearly modeled after the Humes and Berg wahwah
I also have one of those (the H&B) and really like it, but always hold it in when using it. I liked that version of the Ulven, but not enough for a stemless only Harmon.
I tried all their different cup mups too (at Bob Reeves) and found them to be really meh, but that Harmon is incredible.
[/quote]
Yeah- it's fantastic at that, basically bought it specifically for that content. The specific clarity of the overtones is excellent. As soon as I opened it, I knew I was buying <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">😂</EMOJI>.
It's the only mute that comes close to the mel-o-wah in terms of clarity and reliability of filtered pitch material. It's the same essential frequency responses as the Harmon brand one, but slots extremely accurately. Also it being pretty much flush with the bell is a really small, but surprisingly nice ergonomic shift in long pieces. You should try it! Is loadbang gonna be in LA sometime, am I making that up?, you could give it a play when you're out here.
I was also surprised that, for all the acoustic fixes, it still has that lovely, wonky, super soft low range when stemless.
Ulven also makes on that's intended to be played stemless (doesn't come with one) that was pretty nice- clearly modeled after the Humes and Berg wahwah
I also have one of those (the H&B) and really like it, but always hold it in when using it. I liked that version of the Ulven, but not enough for a stemless only Harmon.
I tried all their different cup mups too (at Bob Reeves) and found them to be really meh, but that Harmon is incredible.
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
awesome, thanks for the review! and yes - loadbang will be in Fullerton Feb. 26-28 or so, would be great to meet up!
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
Sweet! I *think* I'm in town that week- that would be awesome!
- dukesboneman
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
I`ve tried a lot of the brands. I have a Harmon and the Jor al Bubble (which I really like the sound)
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
[quote="dukesboneman"]I`ve tried a lot of the brands. I have a Harmon and the Jor al Bubble (which I really like the sound)
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it[/quote]
I just may try that Trapani Harmon. Price isn't bad either.
How does their bucket compare to the softone mute, which is what I normally use?
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it[/quote]
I just may try that Trapani Harmon. Price isn't bad either.
How does their bucket compare to the softone mute, which is what I normally use?
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
[quote="JeffBone44"]<QUOTE author="dukesboneman" post_id="223802" time="1698636184" user_id="2940">
I`ve tried a lot of the brands. I have a Harmon and the Jor al Bubble (which I really like the sound)
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it[/quote]
I just may try that Trapani Harmon. Price isn't bad either.
How does their bucket compare to the softone mute, which is what I normally use?
</QUOTE>
I like Steve's bucket significantly more than the softtone. It's a really lovely mute.
I`ve tried a lot of the brands. I have a Harmon and the Jor al Bubble (which I really like the sound)
an old plastic Selmer "Harmon".
Try the Trapani Harmons http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
Great price and they sound very good
I just bought one of the new Bucket Mutes too, Really like it[/quote]
I just may try that Trapani Harmon. Price isn't bad either.
How does their bucket compare to the softone mute, which is what I normally use?
</QUOTE>
I like Steve's bucket significantly more than the softtone. It's a really lovely mute.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
I only have a Bach straight mute for my tenor trombone, do have a variety of mutes that came with my trumpet, including a Harman Wawa. No trouble with Bach in the bone, and no trouble with any in the trumpet. Don’t know if it was by choice or accident, but the cup mute that came with the trumpet has one cork totally removed…works just fine that way in my horn.
Side note on trumpet mutes: Shortly after paying $200 for my Holton trumpet many years ago, showed it to a former band mate that was running a music store and asked his thoughts on what I paid. Opened the case and first thing out of his mouth was “You have $200 worth of mutes in there. If that horn was in my store, I’d be asking $600 just for the horn. You gotta deal!”
Side note on trumpet mutes: Shortly after paying $200 for my Holton trumpet many years ago, showed it to a former band mate that was running a music store and asked his thoughts on what I paid. Opened the case and first thing out of his mouth was “You have $200 worth of mutes in there. If that horn was in my store, I’d be asking $600 just for the horn. You gotta deal!”
- bassclef
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JeffBone44"]I just may try that Trapani Harmon. Price isn't bad either.[/quote]
I can wholeheartedly vouch for the Trapani mutes. I got a tenor & bass model right when they came out several years ago. I do a lot of theatre work so I use them somewhat frequently. They sound great, are VERY light and stay in the bell without any hacks or customizations. Light years better in every way that counts vs all of the other options which were available at the time they came to market.
These days - I am sure that the Best Brass and Ullven mutes are also superior options to the Jo-Ral and/or the Wick versions. If I was at all unhappy with what my Trapani mute do for me, I'd be all over either of those.
I can wholeheartedly vouch for the Trapani mutes. I got a tenor & bass model right when they came out several years ago. I do a lot of theatre work so I use them somewhat frequently. They sound great, are VERY light and stay in the bell without any hacks or customizations. Light years better in every way that counts vs all of the other options which were available at the time they came to market.
These days - I am sure that the Best Brass and Ullven mutes are also superior options to the Jo-Ral and/or the Wick versions. If I was at all unhappy with what my Trapani mute do for me, I'd be all over either of those.