Christmas TC Trombone Choir - 2023

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-01 8:59 a.m.

who's in?

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-01 9:22 a.m.

I'd like to throw my hat into the ring. I'm not a professional musician, so that makes me the least qualified on this forum to participate. But I am not the kind of person to post stuff on forums and NOT show my "wares" so to speak. I will put my money where my mouth is for all the world to see- for good or ill. :)

After all, how can I criticize others if I'm not willing to put myself on display to the public first? :good:

Aspenforest · by **Aspenforest** » 2023-11-01 10:45 a.m.

I'd love to participate!

jbeatenbough · by **jbeatenbough** » 2023-11-01 11:20 a.m.

I'm in!

tbdana · by **tbdana** » 2023-11-01 11:38 a.m.

For the new folks (like me), what does this entail?

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-01 12:33 p.m.

I will suggest, if this is done this year, that a substantially less technical arrangement be chosen than was had last year.

It's not that people can't play the notes but... I'm sure the Julliard ensemble in the demo recording had all rehearsed and recorded together in the same room. Merely hearing their recording isn't enough to unify all our performances and when our parts were added together... the result was quite cacophonous.

Pick something traditional and sonorous and choral and... short. Something that doesn't need a "featured soloist".

Most of our friends and neighbors who we will post the video to are astonished that we play the trombone at all.

For Christmas, it doesn't need to be a barn-burner.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-11-01 1:04 p.m.

[quote="tbdana"]For the new folks (like me), what does this entail?[/quote]

You get a click track and a part, and you record along with the click track into your phone or an audio interface. Then you upload it into a Dropbox type online file system and the coordinator assembles everything into a final product.

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-01 2:50 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]I will suggest, if this is done this year, that a substantially less technical arrangement be chosen than was had last year.

It's not that people can't play the notes but... I'm sure the Julliard ensemble in the demo recording had all rehearsed and recorded together in the same room. Merely hearing their recording isn't enough to unify all our performances and when our parts were added together... the result was quite cacophonous.
[/quote]

I think it important to keep things in context. Yes, the final product from last year wasn't top quality, but it was never intended to be. Keep in mind that this is a volunteer project done by members of a public forum with representatives from all over the world. I would think it safe to say that most of the members are professionals, or at least music majors, with a very small number of "hobbyist" musicians. All the same, the ensemble isn't intended to be a recording or even a public performance. It's a gathering of random people from all over and of all skill levels to have some fun during the holiday season and to show each other that we are indeed real people behind the keyboard. Nobody is paid for the performance, nor will the video ever generate a single cent of revenue. It's for a bit of silly fun, and who cares how perfect it sounds at the end of the day?

I am on the horns (pun intended) of a dilemma about the complexity of the work. Should it be a technical challenge, or something simpler and less stressful? I vote for the simple, but that's just my personal opinion. Whatever the group decides on it fine with me, I'm not doing the arrangements anyway- I'm just playing what I'm given. I'll leave the music decisions to people more qualified that me.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-01 5:18 p.m.

Keep it simple. I don't know if the majority of folks here are professional musicians. I certainly am not. Let's see some suggestions for the piece. The simpler the piece, the easier for the coordinators to assemble (and fix).

deanmccarty · by **deanmccarty** » 2023-11-01 8:38 p.m.

I’m in again… I don’t think the level should come down… but the arrangement last year wasn’t the greatest. Just a bit cheesy. Looking forward to it.

PMPugs20 · by **PMPugs20** » 2023-11-02 7:48 p.m.

I'm in!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-02 7:51 p.m.

[quote="Ozzlefinch"]I think it important to keep things in context...[/quote]

My suggestion is made with full understanding of the context and limitations of internet collaborations.

Last years selection was interesting to try but... something uncomplicated that will sound finished will be more rewarding than something complex that will never sound finished.

And it's already November! Not much time left.

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-02 8:46 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="Ozzlefinch" post_id="224034" time="1698864658" user_id="14653">
I think it important to keep things in context...[/quote]

My suggestion is made with full understanding of the context and limitations of internet collaborations.

Last years selection was interesting to try but... something uncomplicated that will sound finished will be more rewarding than something complex that will never sound finished.

And it's already November! Not much time left.
</QUOTE>

I agree with you. I would think simple is better because we only have about a month to put something together. Not much time at all. Probably something like a Christmas carol medley- I'm sure most of us have played several already <EMOJI seq="1f601" tseq="1f601">😁</EMOJI>

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-02 9:50 p.m.

We need the audio/video pros from last year. Mikebmiller and michaelpilley are you up for this again?

Any suggestions on arrangement?

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-05 8:01 a.m.

Bueller?

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-05 1:47 p.m.

I PM'd mike miller but no answer yet. There does not seem to be much interest this time around.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-07 6:30 a.m.

Mike is willing to work on this if we can get folks signed up soon. We still need suggestions for an arrangement to play.

Pass the word.

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-07 7:41 a.m.

How about deciding on an arrangement first, then that might generate interest from the membership to sign up? "If you build it, they will come".

Time is running out, so it looks like a simple arrangement would be best for all parties concerned.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-07 7:46 a.m.

Any suggestions? Anyone?

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-11-07 9:16 a.m.

I agree that something simpler has a better chance of success. If people aren't stepping up this year it's because we have a 2 year record of results that we wouldn't want people knowing we were a part of. With a project like this, making a technical boondoggle doesn't achieve the goal. We have a combination of people with crazy skillz and people with average skills. This is more a participation project than an Emmy nominee, and I think that's the level that we should aim for. Something that can be done competently.

There is a Silent Night arrangement for tbone septet by Pederson. That has some nice high parts, and some more attainable stuff. It's relatively short, doesn't have a bunch of 16th notes to try to line up blindly, and is a great arrangement. Not sure how we would go about distributing parts.

Slydeguy · 2023-11-07 12:16 p.m.

Those files can be uploaded and shared via Google Drive as had been done over the past few years.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2023-11-07 6:23 p.m.

I would take exception to the statement that the past 2 yearss videos were not good quality. I just went back and listened and I think they are both excellent. No, we are not going to sound like the Julliard Choir, but I thought they were both well done. The one with John Fedchock has over 2K views on YT.

Last year:

<YOUTUBE id="n3uZvsgNAAI">https://youtu.be/n3uZvsgNAAI?si=KQnDeG1G6OonDaTF</YOUTUBE>

'22

<YOUTUBE id="c1Of-fxnf1I">https://youtu.be/c1Of-fxnf1I?si=vb_8CxbA-a_QilS9</YOUTUBE>

I am happly to play this time around, but I just got an email to play 2 different events at a local church in December that will involve 9 days of rehearsals and shows. So I will let someone else handle the video editing duties.

Patrick Sullivan has put a bunch of these things together and would probably be a good source for a nice arrangement.

My experience the past 2 years has been that, no matter what deadline you put out, everybody waits until the last minute or beyond it to turn in their videos.

jbeatenbough · by **jbeatenbough** » 2023-11-08 10:28 a.m.

I totally agree, I am very pleased with the results of both the last two years.

michaelpilley · by **michaelpilley** » 2023-11-08 11:50 a.m.

Sorry all, I just don't have the time to do it this year, as I have a three month old baby boy and two new jobs. I can put a part in if someone else is doing the editing.

It's not easy to edit and mix all different skill levels in all different acoustics, most of which are not ideal. So whoever is doing it needs to actually be pretty skilled to make it sound good.

Christmas Time Is Here was really complicated, so definitely pick a tune that doesn't have any time changes or fermatas this time around.

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-08 7:48 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]

There is a Silent Night arrangement for tbone septet by Pederson. That has some nice high parts, and some more attainable stuff. It's relatively short, doesn't have a bunch of 16th notes to try to line up blindly, and is a great arrangement. Not sure how we would go about distributing parts.[/quote]

Let's roll with that then. Upload the arrangement so members can start looking it over. Then we can do a sign-up sheet for those who want to commit to the project.

It will buy some time to find video editor.

harrisonreed · 2023-11-08 9:03 p.m.

Yeah the one that was bad quality was the one maybe three or four years ago, with the very unrealistic arrangement -- I felt bad for the guys trying to piece that one together. It wasn't even the editor's fault, the arrangement was just that unrealistic. After that, I've stayed out of it, even though I think the last two years' efforts came out nice. It is a big effort* to try and blend so many different abilities and acoustics together into a coherent project. It gets better each year, as far as I can tell!

* Edit sp.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-08 10:40 p.m.

I will offer to edit the audio if the project is 90 seconds or less and someone else does the video half.

If someone else wants to do it all, that is OK by me.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2023-11-10 3:32 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]I will offer to edit the audio if the project is 90 seconds or less and someone else does the video half.

If someone else wants to do it all, that is OK by me.[/quote]

I don't know too many 90 second long xmas songs.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-10 5:30 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]I don't know too many 90 second long xmas songs.[/quote]

I wrote 60 seconds at first. Ninety is my stretch limit. :D

I think 90 seconds is too short if one is determined to do something that is too long.

I have managed to do ~~[url=https://youtu.be/qDpXra63UKM]~~well-received holiday greetings that were ~~[url=https://youtu.be/Sv0qPfmqL9c]~~way less than 60 seconds.

I think the civilian attention-span for trombone ensembles is not as durable as trombone players think it is.

But I'm not here to demand we do something short. I'll still be interested in participating as a player if we don't.

However, if I'm the one who would be editing it, I have a notion of what is realistic for me.

.

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-10 7:12 p.m.

The average Christmas song is 2.5 minutes. I think that would be quite long enough.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-10 7:44 p.m.

Let's have some arrangement suggestions. I wish I could help but I really do not know what is available.

We can decide on time length based on the arrangements. Even a 90 second song is better than none if it sounds good.

Time's a wasting'.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-10 11:10 p.m.

In Dulci Jubilo, harmonized by Bach, from Benjamin Coy's "A Trombonist's Hymnal"

About 60 seconds

It would need some minor editorial work to add articulations, dynamics, phrasing and perhaps to convert some of the fermatas into explicit durations.

<ATTACHMENT filename="InDucliJubilo.pdf" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~InDucliJubilo.pdf</ATTACHMENT>

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-11 9:26 a.m.

I say go for it. I've looked over the arrangement and it shouldn't be a problem for anyone to play, even with my amateur skills.

The low E on 4th part is a note I haven't reached in a while, even though my horn is capable of playing it. May be a challenge for me to get it consistently.

I'm game for this. Just let me know what part you all need me to do and I'll dust off my lips.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2023-11-12 5:32 p.m.

I think I will sit this one out. Good luck to everyone who plays.

robcat2075 · 2023-11-13 10:33 p.m.

Here is a piano demo of In Dulci Jubilo with some performance markings. It's very Lutheran. Click/guide tracks for each part can be extracted from this.

If we should choose to do this, and there are eight or more players, loud and soft phrases could be split between left and right choirs with everyone joining at the end.

If there aren't eight players... it's only got four parts.

Confident high Bb's and C's needed among the 1st players

The first six measures are timing only, not played...

<YOUTUBE id="X2na6mfnxs8">~~[media]~~https://youtu.be/X2na6mfnxs8?si=0ARcwKXppZmnM0ea</YOUTUBE>

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2023-11-14 10:16 a.m.

Great! I'll start working on it today. It should present no real problems. Not sure what part I will be playing so I will practice each one and see what I'm most comfortable with.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-14 10:38 a.m.

For my planning purposes, I will need to know by the end of this week, Nov 18, if we are doing this. We still need someone to edit the video portion.

If there is another project people are itching to do instead, that is absolutely OK by me, but they need to speak up ASAP and begin organizing it.

If In Dulci Jubilo (two posts above) is it, I propose this timeline

Nov 18 Decision and role call. We need someone to create an online sign-up sheet.

Nov 20 Parts and guide tracks available.

Dec 11 All videos and audios turned in.

Dec 18 Video done and ready to view?

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-14 6:20 p.m.

A new demo version with a some alterations replaces the video 3 posts above.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2023-11-15 4:10 p.m.

This should be a link to a shared folder. The sign-up spreadsheet is there. The music is also there.

Let me know if anyone has problems accessing the folder. I’ll try to fix any problems found.

2023 TC Trombone Choir folder

<LINK_TEXT text="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eRmrf2RN5exnRgelB8A-54DrMvNII7ug?usp=sharing</LINK_TEXT>

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-15 5:00 p.m.

[quote="sacfxdx"]This should be a link to a shared folder. The sign-up spreadsheet is there. The music is also there.

Let me know if anyone has problems accessing the folder. I’ll try to fix any problems found.

2023 TC Trombone Choir folder

<LINK_TEXT text="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eRmrf2RN5exnRgelB8A-54DrMvNII7ug?usp=sharing</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Thank you, Steve!

Everyone else... for now sign up for parts 1, 2, 3 or 4 as you feel appropriate for, and we'll ascertain later if we split into two choirs.

The PDF that is in the drop box now is only informational... so that you may peruse the notes. Actual parts notated for recording will be presented soon-ish. Bass clef parts for 1 and 2 will available.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-16 6:19 p.m.

YouTube informs me that Wise Music Group owns the copyright to "In Dulci Jubilo" :roll:

And don't look up "LatinAutorPerf"

.
<ATTACHMENT filename="WiseMusic.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~WiseMusic.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-11-16 6:28 p.m.

Rob, there's no worry there. That just means that someone owns the copyright to a specific recording <B>of</B> that piece. When you upload, it will ping it, and you click the option that says <I>you</I> own the copyright to whatever you are uploading. You're not uploading someone else's background music, you're uploading your specific recording of a work. This is assuming that you either arranged the piece or the arrangement is already public domain.

They may temporarily take down the video if it is contested, but you will be found to be in the right, provided you show that what you played was an arrangement in the public domain, and you didn't use someone else's recording of it. When you upload, if it asks you to pick a piece of music from a list of works with copyright holders, that list is assuming you are using that recording/arrangement or doing a cover of it in your video, not an original recording. Don't pick a piece from the list unless it forces you to.

This ping usually happens without the "copyright holder" even knowing, YouTube just is looking for duplicate recordings of stuff that is copyright protected, and there are probably a thousand copyright protected recordings of that piece. It is highly likely that it will go completely uncontested.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-16 6:42 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Rob, there's no worry there...[/quote]

Of course it is a bogus claim, but per YouTube, YouTube doesn't review my dispute... the purported owners of the work review my dispute. They get to decide if I am violating their imaginary copyright.

What could go wrong?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-11-16 8:29 p.m.

You don't dispute anything. They can. But they have to prove that they own the copyright. I've worked on several projects with different groups where YouTube pinged us. We claimed copyright of our recording. The description note of the "copyright holder" went away after a few weeks.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-17 12:24 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]You don't dispute anything. They can. But they have to prove that they own the copyright. I've worked on several projects with different groups where YouTube pinged us. We claimed copyright of our recording. The description note of the "copyright holder" went away after a few weeks.[/quote]

Perhaps that is some other YouTube. :idk: The YouTube I'm on presents me with a form to enter my reasons for disputing the copyright claim. And then says YouTube will never read it.

I'm confident I did not dream that.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2023-11-17 7:45 a.m.

Yeah, I see it now. So the Content ID algorithm pings you, and then you do dispute it, and choose the option that says, "no, this is my recording not theirs".

My mistake. It's the same process as I described, essentially, and it says they have 30 days to respond. They have to submit a takedown notice to get the video taken down, and essentially file a lawsuit against you to enforce it, which they would lose.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-17 12:40 p.m.

Interested players should stake out their interest in the spreadsheet below...

[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="sacfxdx" post_id="225293" time="1700082627" user_id="3048">
2023 TC Trombone Choir folder

<LINK_TEXT text="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eRmrf2RN5exnRgelB8A-54DrMvNII7ug?usp=sharing</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Everyone else... for now sign up for parts 1, 2, 3 or 4 as you feel appropriate for, and we'll ascertain later if we split into two choirs.

The PDF that is in the drop box now is only informational... so that you may peruse the notes. Actual parts notated for recording will be presented soon-ish. Bass clef parts for 1 and 2 will available.
</QUOTE>

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-19 8:18 p.m.

It looks like we have more than a quorum, so Trombone Choir is GO!

There is still time to get in; add your name to the spreadsheet and indicate part(s) you are interested in...

<LINK_TEXT text="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eRmrf2RN5exnRgelB8A-54DrMvNII7ug?usp=sharing</LINK_TEXT>

I will have music, part assignments, and guide tracks out tomorrow.

I'm thinking of having everyone record two different parts. Not sure about the left-and-right choir thing yet.

Still looking for someone who wants to edit the video portion.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2023-11-20 8:39 p.m.

I've started ~~[url=https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=33655]~~a new thread so that instruction may be easily found.

Could the OP or a mod please close this thread?

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Christmas TC Trombone Choir - 2023