Hi All tromboneers,

While I am a trumpet player, I am inquiring into the world of trombones to find some info about legacy instruments handed down to me in my family as I am clueless searching the web. My father played a Henri Selmer with serial 15XX. I know he was playing sometime in the 50's, but passed away many years ago. the instrument is in very good condition albeit not played for close to 30 years, could do with a clean and lacquer, slide in good shape. Original case together with red/white cup and straight mutes, you know the mutes made from cardboard....

Is there anyone that can estimate the manufacture date?

Does anyone know if these were good quality instruments?

thanks team!!

Here's a link the bell, i don't know how to embed but copy paste into your browser to view

https://freeimage.host/i/JBbhOlI

Hello and Welcome!

Selmer made several trombone models including the K, Bolero, and Largo (and probably others). Some models were highly prized. I couldn't tell from the engraving picture which model you had.

The serial number appears to date it to the 1950s. There are serial number lists on line, but maybe somebody here knows better than I.

Henri Selmer trombones are notoriously difficult to date as there is very little information about them.

Many years ago, I had a Model 23 Special with a serial number in the 600s. I made many enquiries but got nowhere until I happened to meet the Vincent Bach rep in the local music store (NB I am in the UK) He contacted someone at Selmer, Paris and discovered that it was from the 1950s.

Some more pictures and details would help. The shape of the first bell brace can be a give-away and you might find the model marked on the cork barrel at the top of the hand slide. Bore and bell measurements are also useful.

The narrow "tone ring" on the bell is similar to the one on my old 23 Special.

These were good trombones; mine was like a King 2B but built heavier. Bore 0.460-0.470 and a 7.5in bell and a narrow hand slide.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Stewbones 43

thank you stewbones and bruce. i have a few more pics now and will post them here. i reckon stew its a 23 special as this is imprinted near the serial on the slide.

https://freeimage.host/i/JCfvW3Q

https://freeimage.host/i/JCf8cSp

https://freeimage.host/i/JCf8wl4

https://freeimage.host/i/JCf8tb1

Interesting and intriguing. :???: :idk:

It is not quite the same as my old "23 Special". The main bell brace on mine had the forward curving top, a la King pro models but the bottom of the brace, where you thumb grips, curved backwards, giving the whole brace a flattened out "S" shape.

I have a Selmer, London catalogue from May 1962 which features the Henri Selmer "K Modified" model and that looks similar to yours. The bell engraving looks similar also.

Does your trombone have the original mouthpiece? If so, could you post some pictures? They did an interesting line of double cup mouthpieces.

Cheers

Stewbones 43

thanks for the clarifications Stewbones, i have attached image links of the mouthpiece. it does say double cup as you specify. although 1962 seems a little late for when the instruments were purchased. i do know its the 50's when my dad was a teenager. but anyway, im pretty close now and greatly appreciate your efforts.

https://freeimage.host/i/JC5YTS2

https://freeimage.host/i/JC5Y7te

The catalogue is dated 1962 but the contents may have been made for some years before.

The mouthpiece you have is a double cup model but made by Parduba, a double cup specialist. I wondered if you had the original Henri Selmer mouthpiece?

Cheers

Stewbones

Selmer Paris made very good horns. Demand is pretty low - not sure why! - and they generally sell for less than I think they are worth.

French Selmers are high-quality instruments that are fun to play, but they are very unique. Having owned two Selmer Largos, I think the reason why French Selmers are not in demand is that they aren't really like anything else. People compare the Bolero to a 3B, and it does have the same specs, but the Boleros I've played didn't play anything like any 3B I've played. They are their own thing, and the Largos are even more so.

While the Largo has entirely standard specs for a large bore trombone, it plays and sounds no other large bore. It has an amazing velvety sound at lower dynamics, and is bright and light at higher ones. It would probably be a wonderful soloist's instrument, but it is very difficult to play in a group. For one, that sound means it's very hard to blend with other trombones. But more importantly, the intonation is exactly the opposite of what you would expect on any other trombone...D above the staff is sharp, F above the staff is flat, and so on. It makes it nearly impossible to play in tune with a group, especially if you still play other trombones. Later on I had an F attachment model with the 9" bell and no French bell ring, which traded some of the creamy sound for better ensemble manners, but it was still very odd. Interestingly, both Largos had a disgustingly good low register.

My first (straight, 8.5" bell) Largo was my only large bore for a while, and it took a Herculean effort to get it to play nice with others. When a trombone quartet I was in went to compete at ITF one year, I borrowed a spare Edwards from one of the other members and it was an instant and drastic improvement. Blend and intonation locked in immediately with no effort, whereas with the Largo it was a constant struggle no matter which part I was playing.

Make no mistake, they are very cool horns. But they're kind of not usable in the real world in my experience. Maybe the K Modified is different, but I've never tried one.

What do they play in France?

[quote="Bach5G"]What do they play in France?[/quote]

Maybe this: https://www.a-courtois.com/en/

Theese are very nice horns

/Tom

Finetales is right on the money above!

Hi Stew,

I have loked around and cannot find the original double cup, only other brands

[quote="stewbones43"]The catalogue is dated 1962 but the contents may have been made for some years before.

The mouthpiece you have is a double cup model but made by Parduba, a double cup specialist. I wondered if you had the original Henri Selmer mouthpiece?

Cheers

Stewbones[/quote]

[quote="jarredjeff"]Hi Stew,

I have loked around and cannot find the original double cup, only other brands

<QUOTE author="stewbones43" post_id="225134" time="1699961581" user_id="3880">
The catalogue is dated 1962 but the contents may have been made for some years before.

The mouthpiece you have is a double cup model but made by Parduba, a double cup specialist. I wondered if you had the original Henri Selmer mouthpiece?

Cheers

Stewbones[/quote]</QUOTE>

They are RARE!

I don't know if Henri Selmer, Paris still makes trombones or mouthpieces. I suspect they stopped towards the end of the last century.

Keep searching.

Cheers

Stewbones 43

[quote="Finetales"]French Selmers are high-quality instruments that are fun to play, but they are very unique. Having owned two Selmer Largos, I think the reason why French Selmers are not in demand is that they aren't really like anything else. People compare the Bolero to a 3B, and it does have the same specs, but the Boleros I've played didn't play anything like any 3B I've played. They are their own thing, and the Largos are even more so.

While the Largo has entirely standard specs for a large bore trombone, it plays and sounds no other large bore. It has an amazing velvety sound at lower dynamics, and is bright and light at higher ones. It would probably be a wonderful soloist's instrument, but it is very difficult to play in a group. For one, that sound means it's very hard to blend with other trombones. But more importantly, the intonation is exactly the opposite of what you would expect on any other trombone...D above the staff is sharp, F above the staff is flat, and so on. It makes it nearly impossible to play in tune with a group, especially if you still play other trombones. Later on I had an F attachment model with the 9" bell and no French bell ring, which traded some of the creamy sound for better ensemble manners, but it was still very odd. Interestingly, both Largos had a disgustingly good low register.

My first (straight, 8.5" bell) Largo was my only large bore for a while, and it took a Herculean effort to get it to play nice with others. When a trombone quartet I was in went to compete at ITF one year, I borrowed a spare Edwards from one of the other members and it was an instant and drastic improvement. Blend and intonation locked in immediately with no effort, whereas with the Largo it was a constant struggle no matter which part I was playing.

Make no mistake, they are very cool horns. But they're kind of not usable in the real world in my experience. Maybe the K Modified is different, but I've never tried one.[/quote]

Hi Finetales, how would you describe the sound/feel of the bolero to the 3bs you’ve played?