Cheap Thomann alto? or John Packer alto?
- tonyycanolli
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Nov 12, 2023
Hey everyone, a few days ago I posted a topic where I asked the best places to get a cheap alto just to start. I got a lot of good insight and have slimed my choices down to 2 different horns. either the
John Packer JP136: <LINK_TEXT text="https://jpmusicalinstruments.com/produc ... eq=uniform">https://jpmusicalinstruments.com/products/john-packer-jp136-eb-alto-trombone?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=f3d4f122b&pr_rec_pid=8409286869303&pr_ref_pid=8409264980279&pr_seq=uniform</LINK_TEXT>
or
Thomann SL-35: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.thomannmusic.com/thomann_sl ... ombone.htm">https://www.thomannmusic.com/thomann_sl_35_alto_trombone.htm</LINK_TEXT>
I would use this horn a little more than just messing around in my free time, I'd probably use it in a concert or two in my high school, and for general practice for the next 2-3 years till I'll actually need to either buy or rent a good one for my studies. So this begs the question: is the John Packer 136 worth double the money? For people with experience with both, is it THAT much better? I'd happily spend $460 if it's really worth the money (by the way I understand $460 is low for a horn and to not expect something incredibly quality, I just want something to get by for now.) Or is there hardly a difference and save my money with the Thomann? Any advice or insight would help.
Thanks, everyone
John Packer JP136: <LINK_TEXT text="https://jpmusicalinstruments.com/produc ... eq=uniform">https://jpmusicalinstruments.com/products/john-packer-jp136-eb-alto-trombone?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=f3d4f122b&pr_rec_pid=8409286869303&pr_ref_pid=8409264980279&pr_seq=uniform</LINK_TEXT>
or
Thomann SL-35: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.thomannmusic.com/thomann_sl ... ombone.htm">https://www.thomannmusic.com/thomann_sl_35_alto_trombone.htm</LINK_TEXT>
I would use this horn a little more than just messing around in my free time, I'd probably use it in a concert or two in my high school, and for general practice for the next 2-3 years till I'll actually need to either buy or rent a good one for my studies. So this begs the question: is the John Packer 136 worth double the money? For people with experience with both, is it THAT much better? I'd happily spend $460 if it's really worth the money (by the way I understand $460 is low for a horn and to not expect something incredibly quality, I just want something to get by for now.) Or is there hardly a difference and save my money with the Thomann? Any advice or insight would help.
Thanks, everyone
- sirisobhakya
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
I have an SL-35. The slide is a bit scratchy, but overall usable. If you just want to mess around with it I would say the Thomann would do the job.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Edit: Disregard. It’s hard to tell on my phone. These are probably identical models and just stamped differently. The only thing to be weary if is avoiding the B stock stuff.
- tonyycanolli
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Nov 12, 2023
[quote="Matt K"]Edit: Disregard. It’s hard to tell on my phone. These are probably identical models and just stamped differently. The only thing to be weary if is avoiding the B stock stuff.[/quote]
What is B stock? And how do I avoid it?
What is B stock? And how do I avoid it?
- tonyycanolli
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Nov 12, 2023
[quote="WGWTR180"]I’d say pick and go for it.[/quote]
Pick which?
Pick which?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
What is B stock? And how do I avoid it?
B stock is a term used for things that have imperfections so they can't be sold as new. The imperfection in a B stock instrument can vary from a minor flaw in the lacquer to major dents in critical areas. Since the instrument came that way from the factory it is nominally new, but often B stock instruments don't come with the warranty.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
On the Thomann site you can see "B-Stock from $199 available". It's absolutely not worth saving $16 on a B stock.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="tonyycanolli"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="225572" time="1700362867" user_id="7573">
I’d say pick and go for it.[/quote]
Pick which?
</QUOTE>
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???
I’d say pick and go for it.[/quote]
Pick which?
</QUOTE>
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???
- claf
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Oct 22, 2018
B-stock in Thomann vocabulary does not mean it has imperfections, but only that it was bought and then returned by a customer using the 30-day trial policy.
If there are imperfections, they are listed on the product page, and youcan ask for pictures to their customer service, they will gladly provide them.
If there are imperfections, they are listed on the product page, and youcan ask for pictures to their customer service, they will gladly provide them.
- tonyycanolli
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Nov 12, 2023
[quote="WGWTR180"]<QUOTE author="tonyycanolli" post_id="225600" time="1700395940" user_id="17250">
Pick which?[/quote]
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???
</QUOTE>
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
Pick which?[/quote]
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???
</QUOTE>
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="tonyycanolli"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="225610" time="1700403243" user_id="7573">
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???[/quote]
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
</QUOTE>
What I really think is that you should save a bit more money and buy a good used Yamaha. Very user friendly instruments AND they can be had for under $1000. That's what I think.
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???[/quote]
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
</QUOTE>
What I really think is that you should save a bit more money and buy a good used Yamaha. Very user friendly instruments AND they can be had for under $1000. That's what I think.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="tonyycanolli"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="225610" time="1700403243" user_id="7573">
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???[/quote]
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
</QUOTE>
Same as the other thread. Go to school and get good at tenor trombone. Borrow an alto if you need to learn it, and don't "mess around" with a toy when you'll have a million other more important things to do. When you need an alto, you need a good alto. Crappy altos take the already very unforgiving nature of the instrument and make it ... crappier!
[quote="tonyycanolli"]
I would use this horn a little more than just messing around in my free time, I'd probably use it in a concert or two in my high school, and for general practice for the next 2-3 years till I'll actually need to either buy or rent a good one for my studies.[/quote]
Once you begin learning the alto, you probably will not want to play it in a concert for a while. Even in high school. It's not fair to the section unless you're going to play in tune, and blend with the section. Think about it from their perspective before you make that choice.
Also, don't rent a horn. Can you even rent a good alto?
I think my point would be: with that quality and your needs does it really matter???[/quote]
I’d argue the opposite, since we’re looking at such low quality, I’d want the best bang for my buck because I’m gonna want as good as I can get lol. What do you think?
</QUOTE>
Same as the other thread. Go to school and get good at tenor trombone. Borrow an alto if you need to learn it, and don't "mess around" with a toy when you'll have a million other more important things to do. When you need an alto, you need a good alto. Crappy altos take the already very unforgiving nature of the instrument and make it ... crappier!
[quote="tonyycanolli"]
I would use this horn a little more than just messing around in my free time, I'd probably use it in a concert or two in my high school, and for general practice for the next 2-3 years till I'll actually need to either buy or rent a good one for my studies.[/quote]
Once you begin learning the alto, you probably will not want to play it in a concert for a while. Even in high school. It's not fair to the section unless you're going to play in tune, and blend with the section. Think about it from their perspective before you make that choice.
Also, don't rent a horn. Can you even rent a good alto?
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The JP136 is the exact same horn as the Thomann SL-35 (and all the other Slokar clones), so it's not worth the extra money.
The JP-Rath 236 is the JP alto to get.
The JP-Rath 236 is the JP alto to get.
- timbone
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Apr 30, 2018
I hate to be a pessimist but....I saw this trend with trumpet players buying a cheap cornet or flugel with the idea that you only have to play eight bars.....so now you deal with learning an instruments quirks and try to keep your confidence up when playing in public. So at the end of the day you spend a lot of anguish as opposed to really finding a good instrument that you enjoy and that inspires you to practice and play. Sure it costs more money but in the long run you are gonna trade up anyway correct? And, sometimes you are judged by the company that you keep, if that matters.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
The Thomann SL-35 is worth the money. It's a good alto. Some say the slide is scratchy but my slide is perfect. The horn is rather sharp so I have to pull the tuningslide out. If I compare to my Bach 39 the SL-35 is easier to play, and is better in tune. I like the Bach 39 better when I compare sound.
/Tom
/Tom
- NBischoff
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Jun 04, 2018
I can't imagine many, if any, situations that would call for the use of an alto trombone on a high school concert. Don't rush into anything.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I've said this a bunch of times before. Comparing an alto trombone to a tenor trombone is not like comparing an alto sax to a tenor sax. To switch from an alto sax to a tenor sax all you need is a different mouthpiece and reed. The fingerings are identical. An alto trombone has very little in common with a tenor trombone. Sure they both have a slide, but all the positions are MUCH shorter and in most cases don't correspond to the positions on a tenor trombone. Even reading alto clef. Taking up alto trombone is like taking up a completely different instrument. You'd have more call playing a flute or clarinet than playing alto trombone.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I've said this a bunch of times before. Comparing an alto trombone to a tenor trombone is not like comparing an alto sax to a tenor sax. To switch from an alto sax to a tenor sax all you need is a different mouthpiece and reed. The fingerings are identical.[/quote]
Yup. This is why we do it. It stimulates the brain when we force it to think in Eb. The more we do this, the more transposition and ear playing improves.
Yup. This is why we do it. It stimulates the brain when we force it to think in Eb. The more we do this, the more transposition and ear playing improves.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="claf"]B-stock in Thomann vocabulary does not mean it has imperfections, but only that it was bought and then returned by a customer using the 30-day trial policy.
If there are imperfections, they are listed on the product page, and youcan ask for pictures to their customer service, they will gladly provide them.[/quote]
No, I would say B-stock can be anything and Thomann don't specifically list what it is, but you can count on it is a returned item that now is resold. Good thing with Thomann is you can return an item if you don't like it and the same goes for B-stock. I trust Thomann.
My experience is I bought a Kanstul 1570 B-stock and it was real cheap. I could not find info on what issues it had and in my mind I expected it could be scratches and maybe small dents in the bell or something. It arrived in unplayable condition with dents in the bell AND a dent in the outer slide that was so deep the slide was effected and the trombone was unplayable. I expect they who inspect returned instruments not know what to look for in a tromboneplayers perspective. I have tools so no problem. I fixed the slide with an expander-tool. It was exciting and second time I used it. The first slide I used it on made the slide crack :-( . The dents in the bell was easy. No scratches so trombone now looks like new. For me it was a good buy.
/Tom
If there are imperfections, they are listed on the product page, and youcan ask for pictures to their customer service, they will gladly provide them.[/quote]
No, I would say B-stock can be anything and Thomann don't specifically list what it is, but you can count on it is a returned item that now is resold. Good thing with Thomann is you can return an item if you don't like it and the same goes for B-stock. I trust Thomann.
My experience is I bought a Kanstul 1570 B-stock and it was real cheap. I could not find info on what issues it had and in my mind I expected it could be scratches and maybe small dents in the bell or something. It arrived in unplayable condition with dents in the bell AND a dent in the outer slide that was so deep the slide was effected and the trombone was unplayable. I expect they who inspect returned instruments not know what to look for in a tromboneplayers perspective. I have tools so no problem. I fixed the slide with an expander-tool. It was exciting and second time I used it. The first slide I used it on made the slide crack :-( . The dents in the bell was easy. No scratches so trombone now looks like new. For me it was a good buy.
/Tom