New king slides?
- Rededshred
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mar 31, 2019
Hi all. Just bought a new king trombone.. plays well, sounds great, intonation is great. Slide is meh.. scratchy, resistant, slow. Bathed and cleaned like 10 times with a snake and rodded with cloth, has had some black / green residue coming out and has fortunately sped up slightly and improving the more I run it, but still a bit noisy/ scratchy slow. Using Yamaha synthetic lube which I use with all my horns to great effect.
I was told by the seller shop it's quite common with the new king/conn /selmer slides and they do bed in after a few months of playing.
Think it's worth persevering with it or send it back?
Is this common with slides and do I need to break it in?
Thoughts?
I was told by the seller shop it's quite common with the new king/conn /selmer slides and they do bed in after a few months of playing.
Think it's worth persevering with it or send it back?
Is this common with slides and do I need to break it in?
Thoughts?
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
Not a surprise. C-S don't seem to do a great job polishing the outer tubes these days. As it plays well and you like it otherwise, I certainly wouldn't send it back... it's highly unlikely that the replacement would be better.
It's worth having a good tech check the tube straightness and alignment. It's also worth looking specifically at the ends of the outer tubes under the trim rings. If those haven't been finished well (very slightly bevelled and polished) then you'll have scratchy noises in 7th even if everything else is fine. Easily addressed with a felt cone on a Dremel, but often missed on otherwise decent slides.
If/once all those elements are ok, then they can also speed up the "breaking in" (i.e. finish the job that should really have been done at the factory) by polishing the outer tubes/cleaning/swabbing as needed.
At the DIY level, I don't think modern liquid lubes are much use for breaking in slides. You really need to use "too much" cream (Trombotine, Superslick etc) and water spray. The cream picks up dirt/lapping and buffing compound/etc in a way that the liquids don't, and between swabbing and reapplication I imagine it essentially functions as a lapping compound, holding those particulates in a slurry.
After several rounds of that treatment (excessive cream, enough water to get it moving, and working the slide fairly enthusiastically), followed by swabbing, then the Yamasnot may be fine on its own.
It's worth having a good tech check the tube straightness and alignment. It's also worth looking specifically at the ends of the outer tubes under the trim rings. If those haven't been finished well (very slightly bevelled and polished) then you'll have scratchy noises in 7th even if everything else is fine. Easily addressed with a felt cone on a Dremel, but often missed on otherwise decent slides.
If/once all those elements are ok, then they can also speed up the "breaking in" (i.e. finish the job that should really have been done at the factory) by polishing the outer tubes/cleaning/swabbing as needed.
At the DIY level, I don't think modern liquid lubes are much use for breaking in slides. You really need to use "too much" cream (Trombotine, Superslick etc) and water spray. The cream picks up dirt/lapping and buffing compound/etc in a way that the liquids don't, and between swabbing and reapplication I imagine it essentially functions as a lapping compound, holding those particulates in a slurry.
After several rounds of that treatment (excessive cream, enough water to get it moving, and working the slide fairly enthusiastically), followed by swabbing, then the Yamasnot may be fine on its own.
- Rededshred
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mar 31, 2019
Thanks for that. I actually have some super slick so will try that. I didn't get on with it to much as a lube. I found it a bit lagy but was maybe putting to much on.
I have till the new year to return it so quite tempted to keep working it and cleaning it. Just seems like quite a bit of work for a new horn.
I have till the new year to return it so quite tempted to keep working it and cleaning it. Just seems like quite a bit of work for a new horn.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="Rededshred"]I actually have some super slick so will try that. I didn't get on with it to much as a lube. I found it a bit lagy but was maybe putting to much on.[/quote]
"Really quite laggy" is a good amount for the process I'm talking about.
Quite a bit of the cost difference between these and the "custom" companies is in the human hours spent on these aspects of finishing and setup. Somebody has to swab the thing a million times, and in this case it's you :pant:
"Really quite laggy" is a good amount for the process I'm talking about.
Quite a bit of the cost difference between these and the "custom" companies is in the human hours spent on these aspects of finishing and setup. Somebody has to swab the thing a million times, and in this case it's you :pant:
- Mamaposaune
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sep 22, 2018
As ithinknot pointed out, the liquid slide lubes are not as good for breaking slides in, the cream lubricants work better because they also act as a cleaner and, over time, become imbedded in the pores making the slide slicker no matter what lubricant you use.
Starting a new thread on this under repair and modification because I am not seeing how to post pics here. My "process" may help your slide.
Starting a new thread on this under repair and modification because I am not seeing how to post pics here. My "process" may help your slide.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I would send it back. There are SO many used 3B's with great slides around!
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="greenbean"]I would send it back. There are SO many used 3B's with great slides around![/quote]
Well, that's true.
But if for whatever reason the OP wants a new King, I wouldn't have different expectations for an exchanged replacement slide.
Well, that's true.
But if for whatever reason the OP wants a new King, I wouldn't have different expectations for an exchanged replacement slide.
- Rededshred
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mar 31, 2019
[quote="Mamaposaune"]Starting a new thread on this under repair and modification because I am not seeing how to post pics here. My "process" may help your slide.[/quote]
Great thanks, will check it out.
[quote="greenbean"]I would send it back. There are SO many used 3B's with great slides around![/quote]
I have a 3b with an awesome slide which is why it was a bit of a shock when this turned up.. apparently it's a thing with new king slides.. I got a good deal on it and I love the way it sounds so tempted to go with the advice above and work and play it and make a decision when my return policy is about to end.
Great thanks, will check it out.
[quote="greenbean"]I would send it back. There are SO many used 3B's with great slides around![/quote]
I have a 3b with an awesome slide which is why it was a bit of a shock when this turned up.. apparently it's a thing with new king slides.. I got a good deal on it and I love the way it sounds so tempted to go with the advice above and work and play it and make a decision when my return policy is about to end.
- Digidog
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Dec 13, 2018
....were a great disappointment.
I have a fantastic Silver plated 3B from the early 70's that has had a major slide trauma, and a couple of years ago I decided I'd give the search for a new slide a thorough try.
That was a real letdown. The new slides I got to try were either sloppy fitting, coarse and slow, felt misaligned, had poor mouthpiece inserts or felt stuffy and leaky. My original, traumatised slide was, despite it being repaired, better than any slide I could try - either in feel or blow.
This was some ten years ago, and though I temporarily shelved the plans of fitting that great bell with a new slide, I have nowdays begun to consider if I could have a slide made by some good builder.
Are there any builders, like Greenhoe, that make aftermarket, boutique slides for King?
I have a fantastic Silver plated 3B from the early 70's that has had a major slide trauma, and a couple of years ago I decided I'd give the search for a new slide a thorough try.
That was a real letdown. The new slides I got to try were either sloppy fitting, coarse and slow, felt misaligned, had poor mouthpiece inserts or felt stuffy and leaky. My original, traumatised slide was, despite it being repaired, better than any slide I could try - either in feel or blow.
This was some ten years ago, and though I temporarily shelved the plans of fitting that great bell with a new slide, I have nowdays begun to consider if I could have a slide made by some good builder.
Are there any builders, like Greenhoe, that make aftermarket, boutique slides for King?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
No one makes a replacement King slide besides King. You can have one rebuilt, though. I have no idea why even a company like Butler, which has complete replacement slides for many kinds of trombones, and even makes king outer slides, does not offer a 3B slide. If someone made one I'd be buying that instead of jumping through hoops trying to get mine overhauled.
- Blabberbucket
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Oct 09, 2022
It probably just needs a thorough cleaning and some adjustments, as most things coming from the C-S factories do these days.
Daniel, a reasonably competent tech would be able to source parts and assemble a new slide for you from King components (or other components if you desired). It will likely be costly, but could certainly be done.
Having a King tenon put on another brand's slide is also an option.
Daniel, a reasonably competent tech would be able to source parts and assemble a new slide for you from King components (or other components if you desired). It will likely be costly, but could certainly be done.
Having a King tenon put on another brand's slide is also an option.
- calcbone
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
I can concur with a few other experiences mention here…while King has maintained a decent-quality product for many years and has not really changed the specs…there are certainly noticeable differences between examples of the same horn.
I have a ‘63 straight 3B Silversonic, and a 70s brass 3BF. The ‘63 slide responds noticeably better than the 70s slide on both bell sections. It’s just way more lively and responsive.
I have a ‘63 straight 3B Silversonic, and a 70s brass 3BF. The ‘63 slide responds noticeably better than the 70s slide on both bell sections. It’s just way more lively and responsive.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]No one makes a replacement King slide besides King. You can have one rebuilt, though. I have no idea why even a company like Butler, which has complete replacement slides for many kinds of trombones, and even makes king outer slides, does not offer a 3B slide. If someone made one I'd be buying that instead of jumping through hoops trying to get mine overhauled.[/quote]
Looks like King 3B is an option on the dropdown here:
https://butlertrombones.com/custom-slide-order-form/
Or do you mean the inners too?
Looks like King 3B is an option on the dropdown here:
https://butlertrombones.com/custom-slide-order-form/
Or do you mean the inners too?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Yeah, complete slide.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Ah gotcha. That does seem like a strange omission because I can't imagine they'd have trouble getting the King tenon or inner slide parts.
- Rededshred
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Mar 31, 2019
I kinda wanna be playing the damn thing not constantly ||:cleaning, rodding, buffing, lubing, bathing, swabbing and cleaning:|| My shoulders killing <EMOJI seq="1f923" tseq="1f923">🤣</EMOJI>
- Blabberbucket
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Oct 09, 2022
So have wherever you bought it from exchange it and hope that the next one is better.
Or take it to a tech has the tooling and knowledge to get it set up properly.
Or take it to a tech has the tooling and knowledge to get it set up properly.