Back of the tongue

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-25 7:59 a.m.

How do I keep the back of my tongue down when playing?

Whenever I cresc., the back of my tongue will automatically go up but if I force it down, I will lose the core of the sound.

Are there any exercises for this? :???:

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2024-01-25 9:12 a.m.

With my students, I use a lot of vowel sound manipulatives to alter tone quality. While playing a long tone, change the shape of your mouth and tongue to pronounce the long vowel sounds: A, E, I, O, U. It times time and experimentation to get good at it. I tell me students to exaggerate the vowels for maximum change. In particular, the E vowel should make the instrument sound very nasal like Kermit the Frog! Eventually, the O sound tends to be the most resonant (with the “core” you speak of). That can be your model for how your mouth should feel for a better sounding forte.

All of this is a major simplification of the process. I hope it can give you some ideas.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2024-01-25 9:16 a.m.

Why are you trying to keep the back of your tongue down? Your entire tongue shapes the rate and direction of the air.

Of course it varies depending on the register, and in the low range your tongue will be lower, but for most playing the tongue will be arched.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2024-01-25 9:32 a.m.

Mine only goes down as you describe for pedals.

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-25 11:22 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Why are you trying to keep the back of your tongue down? Your entire tongue shapes the rate and direction of the air.

Of course it varies depending on the register, and in the low range your tongue will be lower, but for most playing the tongue will be arched.[/quote]

Oh sorry, I didn’t specify. My tongue will arch when I’m playing in the low range. Mid to high I’m fine, it’s just for the lower register!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2024-01-25 1:36 p.m.

[quote="martinong"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="232105" time="1706192174" user_id="3642">
Why are you trying to keep the back of your tongue down? Your entire tongue shapes the rate and direction of the air.

Of course it varies depending on the register, and in the low range your tongue will be lower, but for most playing the tongue will be arched.[/quote]

Oh sorry, I didn’t specify. My tongue will arch when I’m playing in the low range. Mid to high I’m fine, it’s just for the lower register!
</QUOTE>

Do you have a teacher? Someone who can observe you in order to ascertain what exactly you are doing? Depending on a bunch of well-intentioned people interpreting what you think is happening is not efficient.

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-25 6:42 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]

Do you have a teacher? Someone who can observe you in order to ascertain what exactly you are doing? Depending on a bunch of well-intentioned people interpreting what you think is happening is not efficient.[/quote]

Yes I do. But he always told me to stop overthinking and use air..

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-25 6:45 p.m.

[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]With my students, I use a lot of vowel sound manipulatives to alter tone quality. While playing a long tone, change the shape of your mouth and tongue to pronounce the long vowel sounds: A, E, I, O, U. It times time and experimentation to get good at it. I tell me students to exaggerate the vowels for maximum change. In particular, the E vowel should make the instrument sound very nasal like Kermit the Frog! Eventually, the O sound tends to be the most resonant (with the “core” you speak of). That can be your model for how your mouth should feel for a better sounding forte.

All of this is a major simplification of the process. I hope it can give you some ideas.[/quote]
Yes I know about the O sound. I can do it for soft playing but once I get louder, in the low register, it will become an E sound :frown:

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-01-25 7:41 p.m.

Sounds to me like you're losing stabiity in your chops and compensating that way to reduce the air. The tongue situation may be a symptom, not the actual problem.

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-25 8:59 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Sounds to me like you're losing stabiity in your chops and compensating that way to reduce the air. The tongue situation may be a symptom, not the actual problem.[/quote]

I see.. how do I work on the stability in my chops?

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-01-26 1:14 a.m.

I would have to see you play to give any valid advice.

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-26 4:05 a.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]I would have to see you play to give any valid advice.[/quote]

I could put a short video here.

martinong · by **martinong** » 2024-01-26 4:25 a.m.

[quote="martinong"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="232209" time="1706249686" user_id="51">
I would have to see you play to give any valid advice.[/quote]

I could put a short video here.
</QUOTE>

<YOUTUBE id="y80vlADZgKU">https://youtu.be/y80vlADZgKU?si=EecnT9JLjyH2ngb6</YOUTUBE>

Let me know if you can’t watch this.

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Back of the tongue