Bach 42 Removable Leadpipe
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
Hey everyone,
I’m really new to this forum, so this may or may not have been talked about before, but I’m interested in having a removable leadpipe modification being done to my Bach 42 slide. I’m not sold on the current soldered in one, and I’d love to experiment with some other leadpipes.
How would I go about doing that? Is that something my local shop could tackle, or would it be best to go to a bigger repair place, or even send it off to a tech?
Thanks!
I’m really new to this forum, so this may or may not have been talked about before, but I’m interested in having a removable leadpipe modification being done to my Bach 42 slide. I’m not sold on the current soldered in one, and I’d love to experiment with some other leadpipes.
How would I go about doing that? Is that something my local shop could tackle, or would it be best to go to a bigger repair place, or even send it off to a tech?
Thanks!
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
You'll want to get someone who is comfortable doing it. Sometimes, local shops are able, other times, not so much. My local shop has shied away from doing leadpipe removal, so I typically send it off to one fo the techs on the forum who has availability. Brad Close most recently did one for me and did a spectacular job and at a pretty reasonable price.
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
[quote="Matt K"]You'll want to get someone who is comfortable doing it. Sometimes, local shops are able, other times, not so much. My local shop has shied away from doing leadpipe removal, so I typically send it off to one fo the techs on the forum who has availability. Brad Close most recently did one for me and did a spectacular job and at a pretty reasonable price.[/quote]
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
[quote="Matt K"]Yep! He's active here under alias "brassmedic" too[/quote]
Cool, I’ll definitely check him out then. :D
Cool, I’ll definitely check him out then. :D
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
What Matt said. Definitely have it done by someone who has done many of them.
And be warned: even then, they cannot always keep the leadpipe itself intact. Sometimes the inner slide tube also has to be sacrificed. I had the leadpipe removed from an older Bach slide a couple months ago by one the very best techs in the country, and he couldn't save either. Fortunately he had a replacement inner tube in the shop he could replace it with.
Also, if you go with a screw-in leadpipe receiver, it will lengthen the instrument. I have trouble with that, because I play low on the pitch and Bachs are already longer than some other trombones overall. With Bach trombones I find it works best for me to test pipes with a push-fit ring and then have the one I like soldered in. YMMV.
And be warned: even then, they cannot always keep the leadpipe itself intact. Sometimes the inner slide tube also has to be sacrificed. I had the leadpipe removed from an older Bach slide a couple months ago by one the very best techs in the country, and he couldn't save either. Fortunately he had a replacement inner tube in the shop he could replace it with.
Also, if you go with a screw-in leadpipe receiver, it will lengthen the instrument. I have trouble with that, because I play low on the pitch and Bachs are already longer than some other trombones overall. With Bach trombones I find it works best for me to test pipes with a push-fit ring and then have the one I like soldered in. YMMV.
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
[quote="GabrielRice"]What Matt said. Definitely have it done by someone who has done many of them.
And be warned: even then, they cannot always keep the leadpipe itself intact. Sometimes the inner slide tube also has to be sacrificed. I had the leadpipe removed from an older Bach slide a couple months ago by one the very best techs in the country, and he couldn't save either. Fortunately he had a replacement inner tube in the shop he could replace it with.
Also, if you go with a screw-in leadpipe receiver, it will lengthen the instrument. I have trouble with that, because I play low on the pitch and Bachs are already longer than some other trombones overall. With Bach trombones I find it works best for me to test pipes with a push-fit ring and then have the one I like soldered in. YMMV.[/quote]
Right now I’m looking at getting a Shires leadpipe (my girlfriend has some and she’s letting me borrow them to see if I’d eventually buy one for myself) and those don’t have any threads. Would that be safe to use?
EDIT: Ok so after looking, turns out they do have threads. In order to use threaded ones, you’re saying I’d probably need to get my horn cut down as well?
And be warned: even then, they cannot always keep the leadpipe itself intact. Sometimes the inner slide tube also has to be sacrificed. I had the leadpipe removed from an older Bach slide a couple months ago by one the very best techs in the country, and he couldn't save either. Fortunately he had a replacement inner tube in the shop he could replace it with.
Also, if you go with a screw-in leadpipe receiver, it will lengthen the instrument. I have trouble with that, because I play low on the pitch and Bachs are already longer than some other trombones overall. With Bach trombones I find it works best for me to test pipes with a push-fit ring and then have the one I like soldered in. YMMV.[/quote]
Right now I’m looking at getting a Shires leadpipe (my girlfriend has some and she’s letting me borrow them to see if I’d eventually buy one for myself) and those don’t have any threads. Would that be safe to use?
EDIT: Ok so after looking, turns out they do have threads. In order to use threaded ones, you’re saying I’d probably need to get my horn cut down as well?
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Useful post from Matt W:
[quote="hornbuilder"]If the collar is installed correctly, the added length is only as long as the thickness of the threaded collar on the pipe. In this instance, @1/8". Some of the receiver material has to be removed (on a lathe) for this to occur.[/quote]
In this thread:
[url]<LINK_TEXT text=" https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic ... 48#p223148"> https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=223148#p223148</LINK_TEXT>
That was about a 50, but the parts are nearly identical.
Cheers,
Andy
[quote="hornbuilder"]If the collar is installed correctly, the added length is only as long as the thickness of the threaded collar on the pipe. In this instance, @1/8". Some of the receiver material has to be removed (on a lathe) for this to occur.[/quote]
In this thread:
That was about a 50, but the parts are nearly identical.
Cheers,
Andy
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="Gameboy64"]<QUOTE author="Matt K" post_id="232734" time="1706710431" user_id="48">
You'll want to get someone who is comfortable doing it. Sometimes, local shops are able, other times, not so much. My local shop has shied away from doing leadpipe removal, so I typically send it off to one fo the techs on the forum who has availability. Brad Close most recently did one for me and did a spectacular job and at a pretty reasonable price.[/quote]
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?
</QUOTE>
I'm not from Brass Ark. Noah and I share a space, but we are totally separate businesses, and the leadpipes that Brass Ark sells are made by me. I can pull your leadpipe and set you up with a new custom pipe if you like. If you cut off part of the original receiver you can install threads without adding very much length to the instrument. You can reach me at <EMAIL email="info@brassmedic.com">info@brassmedic.com</EMAIL>, or send me a PM here, but email is better.
You'll want to get someone who is comfortable doing it. Sometimes, local shops are able, other times, not so much. My local shop has shied away from doing leadpipe removal, so I typically send it off to one fo the techs on the forum who has availability. Brad Close most recently did one for me and did a spectacular job and at a pretty reasonable price.[/quote]
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?
</QUOTE>
I'm not from Brass Ark. Noah and I share a space, but we are totally separate businesses, and the leadpipes that Brass Ark sells are made by me. I can pull your leadpipe and set you up with a new custom pipe if you like. If you cut off part of the original receiver you can install threads without adding very much length to the instrument. You can reach me at <EMAIL email="info@brassmedic.com">info@brassmedic.com</EMAIL>, or send me a PM here, but email is better.
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="Gameboy64" post_id="232741" time="1706714105" user_id="17596">
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?[/quote]
I'm not from Brass Ark. Noah and I share a space, but we are totally separate businesses, and the leadpipes that Brass Ark sells are made by me. I can pull your leadpipe and set you up with a new custom pipe if you like. If you cut off part of the original receiver you can install threads without adding very much length to the instrument. You can reach me at <EMAIL email="info@brassmedic.com">info@brassmedic.com</EMAIL>, or send me a PM here, but email is better.
</QUOTE>
Ok, I gotcha. I’ll definitely email you in the coming days, I think I’m gonna do some more research about what all I want to do first though. Thanks for the clarification, and I’ll be in contact. :D
Thanks for the info! Brad is the guy from Brass Ark, right?[/quote]
I'm not from Brass Ark. Noah and I share a space, but we are totally separate businesses, and the leadpipes that Brass Ark sells are made by me. I can pull your leadpipe and set you up with a new custom pipe if you like. If you cut off part of the original receiver you can install threads without adding very much length to the instrument. You can reach me at <EMAIL email="info@brassmedic.com">info@brassmedic.com</EMAIL>, or send me a PM here, but email is better.
</QUOTE>
Ok, I gotcha. I’ll definitely email you in the coming days, I think I’m gonna do some more research about what all I want to do first though. Thanks for the clarification, and I’ll be in contact. :D
- ryebrye
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Dec 20, 2022
Another thing to be aware of: Bach's factory made "artisan" series slides come with removable leadpipes.
Virtuosity in Boston sells the artisan line.. You might be able to trade in your existing slide for some credit towards an artisan one (but this will still be a lot more expensive than modifying your existing one)
Virtuosity in Boston sells the artisan line.. You might be able to trade in your existing slide for some credit towards an artisan one (but this will still be a lot more expensive than modifying your existing one)
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Suggestions for once you get your slide equipped to have removable leadpipes:
Buy only one or two at at a time. Play them side to side to compare. Play them using the same two or three pieces, like excerpts or bits of a solo. It’s helpful if the pieces have contrasting elements so you can evaluate as many different aspects of playing, e.g., pitch, intonation, articulation, dynamics, response, etc. Record yourself, and have others listen to you from afar, like 20’, 50’, and 100’ away.
What feels best might not sound best.
Buy only one or two at at a time. Play them side to side to compare. Play them using the same two or three pieces, like excerpts or bits of a solo. It’s helpful if the pieces have contrasting elements so you can evaluate as many different aspects of playing, e.g., pitch, intonation, articulation, dynamics, response, etc. Record yourself, and have others listen to you from afar, like 20’, 50’, and 100’ away.
What feels best might not sound best.
- Gameboy64
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Jan 30, 2024
[quote="Kbiggs"]Suggestions for once you get your slide equipped to have removable leadpipes:
Buy only one or two at at a time. Play them side to side to compare. Play them using the same two or three pieces, like excerpts or bits of a solo. It’s helpful if the pieces have contrasting elements so you can evaluate as many different aspects of playing, e.g., pitch, intonation, articulation, dynamics, response, etc. Record yourself, and have others listen to you from afar, like 20’, 50’, and 100’ away.
What feels best might not sound best.[/quote]
Gotcha. Thanks for bringing this to light. I’ve seen similar ideas in other posts, mainly about that sound vs feel concept, but I like the idea of recording at different distances. I think that’ll be really helpful when it comes to getting the sound I want.
Buy only one or two at at a time. Play them side to side to compare. Play them using the same two or three pieces, like excerpts or bits of a solo. It’s helpful if the pieces have contrasting elements so you can evaluate as many different aspects of playing, e.g., pitch, intonation, articulation, dynamics, response, etc. Record yourself, and have others listen to you from afar, like 20’, 50’, and 100’ away.
What feels best might not sound best.[/quote]
Gotcha. Thanks for bringing this to light. I’ve seen similar ideas in other posts, mainly about that sound vs feel concept, but I like the idea of recording at different distances. I think that’ll be really helpful when it comes to getting the sound I want.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Big can of worms, but...
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="GabrielRice"]Big can of worms, but...
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.[/quote]
No, Gabe, on second thought, I think you’re right. If it doesn’t feel “good” or “right,” it’ll be difficult to get comfortable with it. If a shirt is too tight in the chest, it can feel hard to take a full breath. It might even chafe a bit.
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.[/quote]
No, Gabe, on second thought, I think you’re right. If it doesn’t feel “good” or “right,” it’ll be difficult to get comfortable with it. If a shirt is too tight in the chest, it can feel hard to take a full breath. It might even chafe a bit.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="GabrielRice"]Big can of worms, but...
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.[/quote]
Can we sticky this somewhere?
If it sounds good now but doesn't feel right, sooner or later it will not sound good either. Especially with the leadpipe, the right feel is essential.[/quote]
Can we sticky this somewhere?
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
I actually have a different take..
We are creatures of habit. Our bodies adapt to things in our environment, making accomodations to accomplish what we need to do. Meaning, we get used to doing what we need to do to get the results we want. Over time, we may infact introduce compromise in the way we play to get the result we want. That compromise becomes a part of what we do.
A new instrument will play differently, but, our bodies are used to playing the way we need to on our regular instrument.
So,
If an instrument sounds good, but feels strange, that is okay, because our bodies can adapt. We will adapt to what is required, energy wise, to get that sound most efficiently. But, if an instrument feels comfortable, but doesn't sound the way you want, you will forever fight that horn because it is not going to change.
Just because something "feels" different, does not mean it is bad, and just because something "feels" comfortable does not mean it is the best way of doing something.
We are creatures of habit. Our bodies adapt to things in our environment, making accomodations to accomplish what we need to do. Meaning, we get used to doing what we need to do to get the results we want. Over time, we may infact introduce compromise in the way we play to get the result we want. That compromise becomes a part of what we do.
A new instrument will play differently, but, our bodies are used to playing the way we need to on our regular instrument.
So,
If an instrument sounds good, but feels strange, that is okay, because our bodies can adapt. We will adapt to what is required, energy wise, to get that sound most efficiently. But, if an instrument feels comfortable, but doesn't sound the way you want, you will forever fight that horn because it is not going to change.
Just because something "feels" different, does not mean it is bad, and just because something "feels" comfortable does not mean it is the best way of doing something.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Probably gradations both ways. I have a Getzen that I did not like at first and even after a week of playing on it was not working well for me. Swapping the leadpipe on it made all the difference.
On the other hand a similar Getzen arrived a month or so prior. The first day I didn’t like it but then the subsequent day I loved it.
I don’t know the right period of time but certainly if it sounds better than alternatives I would be willing to try it a few more times. But maybe after a week? Well, I didn’t wait that long!
On the other hand a similar Getzen arrived a month or so prior. The first day I didn’t like it but then the subsequent day I loved it.
I don’t know the right period of time but certainly if it sounds better than alternatives I would be willing to try it a few more times. But maybe after a week? Well, I didn’t wait that long!
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]I actually have a different take..
We are creatures of habit. Our bodies adapt to things in our environment, making accomodations to accomplish what we need to do. Meaning, we get used to doing what we need to do to get the results we want. Over time, we may infact introduce compromise in the way we play to get the result we want. That compromise becomes a part of what we do.
A new instrument will play differently, but, our bodies are used to playing the way we need to on our regular instrument.
So,
If an instrument sounds good, but feels strange, that is okay, because our bodies can adapt. We will adapt to what is required, energy wise, to get that sound most efficiently. But, if an instrument feels comfortable, but doesn't sound the way you want, you will forever fight that horn because it is not going to change.
Just because something "feels" different, does not mean it is bad, and just because something "feels" comfortable does not mean it is the best way of doing something.[/quote]
I don't think we actually disagree.
We are creatures of habit. Our bodies adapt to things in our environment, making accomodations to accomplish what we need to do. Meaning, we get used to doing what we need to do to get the results we want. Over time, we may infact introduce compromise in the way we play to get the result we want. That compromise becomes a part of what we do.
A new instrument will play differently, but, our bodies are used to playing the way we need to on our regular instrument.
So,
If an instrument sounds good, but feels strange, that is okay, because our bodies can adapt. We will adapt to what is required, energy wise, to get that sound most efficiently. But, if an instrument feels comfortable, but doesn't sound the way you want, you will forever fight that horn because it is not going to change.
Just because something "feels" different, does not mean it is bad, and just because something "feels" comfortable does not mean it is the best way of doing something.[/quote]
I don't think we actually disagree.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I would also say many of us are not clear on what "sounds good" means. Or "feels good" for that matter.