Which Doug Elliot Mouthpiece for Large Bore Tenor?

wstrauch27 · by **wstrauch27** » 2024-02-11 9:34 p.m.

Last summer, I had the privilege of meeting Doug Elliot at the International Trombone Festival in Salt Lake City and had him make me a jazz trombone mouthpiece. It's an XT N102 rim, XT D+ cup, and XT D+ 3 shank. I play on a Yamaha custom z small bore horn. I also picked up a Greg Black 5g when I was there for my large tenor which is a Shires axial tenor (Alessi bell, TW47 slide). That mouthpiece is also a solid mouthpiece, but it's been a pain constantly switching back and forth since the mouthpieces feel so drastically different. Ideally I would at least have the same rim for both horns which is an idea I have been playing with a lot recently.

I recently experimented with playing on Bach 6 1/2 ALs since those are the only mouthpieces I own for both large bore and tenor. Before I started using Doug Elliot's mouthpiece, I'd played on a 6 1/2 on small tenor since I started playing trombone, and over the last few years, I had been using a Shilke 51 on my large bore before I got the 5g. After trying the 6 1/2s out again, I have decided that I am just too in love with my Doug Elliot mouthpiece to put it on the bench even if it is just for a couple of weeks. The 6 1/2 ALs couldn't compete with the sound the Doug Elliot and Greg Black mouthpieces produce.

I have decided that I would like to get a Doug Elliot mouthpiece with the XT N102 rim for my large tenor, but I'm not entirely sure which cup and/or shank would be the best option. I don't have a ton of experience trying out different types of equipment, like I said I played on Bach 6 1/2s and a Shilke 51 for most of my time playing so any all input would be valued and highly appreciated. I've been looking at the G, G+, H, and I cup sizes and was wondering if anyone might have thoughts. If you're curious about my playing, or want to get an idea I have a trombone instagram account called "trombone.inator" that has a few clips.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-02-11 9:40 p.m.

The usual choice would be XT G and G8.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-02-11 9:43 p.m.

G or G+. If you liked the depth of the GB 5G, then I would probably get a G+

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-02-11 9:52 p.m.

G, G+, and H are all possibilities, with the matching #8 backbores

goldendomer04 · by **goldendomer04** » 2024-02-11 10:09 p.m.

I would also recommend the XT F+ cup with the G8 shank.

I just snagged this setup from Doug at TMEA this weekend and I wound up liking it better than my G or G+ cups for my 88h.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2024-02-11 11:00 p.m.

I liked the F cup, when I had one.

WilliamLang · by **WilliamLang** » 2024-02-12 2:36 a.m.

I loved the G8, G cup, 104 rim that Doug sent me - use it for chamber and show stuff all the time, and it's an great principal piece as well.

Trav1s · by **Trav1s** » 2024-02-12 6:38 a.m.

[quote="goldendomer04"]I would also recommend the XT F+ cup with the G8 shank.

I just snagged this setup from Doug at TMEA this weekend and I wound up liking it better than my G or G+ cups for my 88h.[/quote]

Another F+/G8 fan here! Doug's G/G8 option is still under consideration but not in the cards right now.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2024-02-12 12:46 p.m.

LT G Cup / G8 Shank. I've not tried F+. Formerly used F Cup / F8 Shank, but I now prefer the G size.

Doug also made me a G8 Conn Shank for my 88H. :good:

EriKon · by **EriKon** » 2024-02-12 1:33 p.m.

G-Cup/G8 is a perfect match for large bore. I do so much playing on that and I don't look back to any other large bore mouthpiece options at all.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2024-02-12 1:50 p.m.

Any opinions re: G/G8 MT, LT, XT. Also the newer design shank?

I dropped mine and very slightly knocked my shank out of round. Barely noticeable really but I can see it.

I tend use my LT 104, G8/G4 on my .547 and .525 horns.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-02-12 5:07 p.m.

Forget about MT for a G cup, it doesn't make any sense.

LT or XT sort of depends on both rim size and the kind of feel and sound you want. XT will always feel more open than LT because there's a little more cup volume.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-02-13 9:01 a.m.

I use F8 and G8 on 88h, and depending on what you're doing, the H could also work. F8 is a little snappier, G8 is a fuller sound.

The blank size makes a difference (LT vs XT). The heavier blank gives a stronger sound. I recently changed from LB to XB on bass, and I get a bigger sound with an extra step of low range on bass.

wstrauch27 · 2024-04-30 11:28 p.m.

[quote="WilliamLang"]I loved the G8, G cup, 104 rim that Doug sent me - use it for chamber and show stuff all the time, and it's an great principal piece as well.[/quote]

Thanks for the input! It really means a lot. I watched your video on it before I sent out this question a few months ago. I don't think I'm strong enough for the 104 rim yet haha but maybe one day. My main goal is to match the rim with what I have on my jazz set up especially since I'm loving the narrow rim.

wstrauch27 · by **wstrauch27** » 2024-04-30 11:32 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]G or G+. If you liked the depth of the GB 5G, then I would probably get a G+[/quote]

That makes sense, I'm thinking I'll land on a G+ just because I want a warmer/darker and more distinct sound from my jazz set up. I appreciate the input!

wstrauch27 · by **wstrauch27** » 2024-04-30 11:43 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Forget about MT for a G cup, it doesn't make any sense.

LT or XT sort of depends on both rim size and the kind of feel and sound you want. XT will always feel more open than LT because there's a little more cup volume.[/quote]

That makes sense. In order to match my jazz set up I think I'm going to stick with XT. Do you think a G8 backbore and a G+ cup would make sense? My thought process is that I would like to have a darker sound, kind of like what the GB gives me, but with the same rim as my jazz set up.

ajeasley · by **ajeasley** » 2024-05-02 9:55 a.m.

Using similar horns (Yamaha 891Z, and my army horn is a Shires Alessi) I use a shallower C+ on the small horn. The G/G8 works just fine on the Shires for me as a "do it all" daily driver. Mileage may vary depending on your use case, but it's a great starting point.

Anecdotally, the G10 shank works better on that horn for me but is also more demanding and I wouldn't recommend it before the G8. On my personal large tenor (a Yamaha 882OR) the G8 works far better.

EriKon · by **EriKon** » 2024-05-02 11:10 a.m.

[quote="wstrauch27"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="233914" time="1707775644" user_id="51">
Forget about MT for a G cup, it doesn't make any sense.

LT or XT sort of depends on both rim size and the kind of feel and sound you want. XT will always feel more open than LT because there's a little more cup volume.[/quote]

That makes sense. In order to match my jazz set up I think I'm going to stick with XT. Do you think a G8 backbore and a G+ cup would make sense? My thought process is that I would like to have a darker sound, kind of like what the GB gives me, but with the same rim as my jazz set up.
</QUOTE>

Just to clarify (maybe a typo): The G shank won't work with the G+ cup. There's probably a G+ shank, otherwise you need the H shank. Shank for the + sizes is always the next bigger one if there are no specific shanks for that X+ cup.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-05-02 12:27 p.m.

G with a G8

or G+ with a G+8

Both are reasonable choices.

My personal choices, all XT with N104 or mN104 rim:

C+, D2 on a .500

D+, D+4 on a .525

G, G8 on a .547

A full or half cup size either way also works well on any of them.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2024-05-09 10:34 a.m.

What advantages do you find with the N or mN rims as opposed to the standard contour?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2024-05-09 10:41 a.m.

Less metal on the face increases flexibility and endurance.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2024-05-09 11:17 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Less metal on the face increases flexibility and endurance.[/quote]

My preferred size the past couple years has been the XT105, except for when I play my small bore horn, then it's the XT104. If I get a narrow rim would I be able to downsize to a 104, or should I stick with the 105?

EriKon · by **EriKon** » 2024-05-09 11:43 a.m.

Didn't do that for me. Flexibility and accuracy is definitely worse with N and even the MN rim. So, I stick with my standard 104 rim. Probably going to sell my MN104 soon, once I got my backup rims from Doug

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-05-09 12:23 p.m.

The effect depends on your facial structure.

That's why I make them.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2024-05-09 1:44 p.m.

I tried the narrow rims a long time ago, like 15 years ago. Didn't like them then. But recently I have tried some mouthpieces with narrow rims and they work better for me now, which surprised me.

UrbanaDave · by **UrbanaDave** » 2025-02-07 7:02 a.m.

:hi: 8 months later….

Doug, would you help me understand the difference between MT and LT cups? I appreciated your explanation about XT having a bit more cup volume than LT. is the difference similar?

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2025-02-08 3:30 a.m.

Yes, it's the opposite difference. MT has less volume than LT, narrower across the top of the cup. And ST is still less. You probably wouldn't want to use MT on a large bore horn, it needs more cup volume.

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Which Doug Elliot Mouthpiece for Large Bore Tenor?