0.525 (nominal) slide tubes

blap73 · by **blap73** » 2024-03-06 10:44 a.m.

I'm restoring a King 607. After removing the finish on the slide I find that the outer slide tubes are heavily pitted & etched. Yes I could order new tubes from Conn-Selmer (at $137 each and out of stock). Thus two reasons I'm not too excited about that idea.

Are there other options that will work with the existing inners? I suspect being a narrow-ish slide the tubes from other .525 horns may be short? They measure 27.5" long. Inner stockings are 14.0 mm (measured on a caliper that is probably +/- 0.1 mm)

Anyone able to tell me if Bach .525 outer tubes will work with the King 607 inners? For example MK Drawing has those in brass for $71 each.

Or Yamaha .525? Others?

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2024-03-06 12:55 p.m.

As something of a last resort, look at shopgoodwill.com? There are several King 60? horns there for sale at almost giveaway prices. Some don't look bad -- though of course you never know about the insides of the slides. But they have pictures and the horns don't seem to be abused. Just a thought. If you call the Goodwill store that actually has a particular horn, you MIGHT be able to get more (reliable?) info (or pictures?) -- though in my experience the staffs know zilch about musical instruments (and very frequently list a baritone as a "tuba" :lol: ). :idk:

Of course, that also depends on how complete and qualitative you have in mind for the restoration. But it would be pretty close to "original parts".

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2024-03-06 1:28 p.m.

I have an upper inner and outer that are in good shape from a project that I’d be willing to sell (from a 607F)

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2024-03-07 12:40 a.m.

The Allied catalog shows .525 slide tubes for King, Conn, Getzen, and Jupiter models. I bet every tech in the US has an account and can order some for you.

blap73 · 2024-03-19 8:17 p.m.

An update on this, MK Drawing has some Bach 36 tubes that might work and/or they say they could modify them for me. Votah has some that might work (part 9533, Bach 36 outside tube), I've asked for exact dimensions.... waiting.

@ghmerrill - the King 606 is common on Goodwill. They are always worse than you realize in the pics (I've bought a couple Goodwill horns). And the 606 is 0.500" not 0.525" like the 607.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2024-03-19 9:12 p.m.

[quote="blap73"]An update on this, MK Drawing has some Bach 36 tubes that might work and/or they say they could modify them for me. Votah has some that might work, I've asked for exact dimensions.... waiting.[/quote]

Please tell us what you learn!...

blap73 · by **blap73** » 2024-03-22 11:00 a.m.

Can anyone measure the inner slide stocking OD of a Bach 36 for me?

Also, same, inner slide stocking OD of a Yamaha SL645?

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2024-03-22 11:35 a.m.

[quote="blap73"]Can anyone measure the inner slide stocking OD of a Bach 36 for me?[/quote]

0.559"

OneTon · by **OneTon** » 2024-03-22 1:59 p.m.

When I replaced the outer tubes on an Olds Studio, I used nominal King 0.490 upper inner and outer tubes, and 0.500 lower inner and outer tubes. I had the outers plated and lacquered. The results were good. New inners are straight and have no plating wear. The total cost was about half what a new slide would cost. Yamaha dimensions are unique. Yamaha doesn’t recommend using 897 parts to repair a 697. “Matched” Bach or King parts may be preferrable.

blap73 · by **blap73** » 2024-03-22 5:25 p.m.

Well this is getting interesting. The 607 inner tube stocking OD is 0.554" (with a good micrometer). From @AtomicClock's measurement, the Bach 36 is 0.559, or .005 larger. So that'd indicate that the Bach 36 slide outer tubes would be sloppy on the 607 inners.

But wait!

Votah lists the ID of their Bach 36 outers as 0.567 - which would mean a total clearance of only .008"

And this post <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=25951">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=25951</LINK_TEXT> notes that slides should have a .012 to .014 total clearance... and also notes that older Bach equipment had tighter 'tolerance'.

So interestingly, if the Bach 36 outside tube is 0.567" ID, then the clearance for it on a 607 inner is 0.013", or right where it should be.

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2024-03-22 5:35 p.m.

[quote="blap73"]Well this is getting interesting. The 607 inner tube stocking OD is 0.554" (with a good micrometer). From @AtomicClock's measurement, the Bach 36 is 0.559, or .005 larger. So that'd indicate that the Bach 36 slide outer tubes would be sloppy on the 607 inners.

But wait!

Votah lists the ID of their Bach 36 outers as 0.567 - which would mean a total clearance of only .008"

And this post <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=25951">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=25951</LINK_TEXT> notes that slides should have a .012 to .014 total clearance... and also notes that older Bach equipment had tighter 'tolerance'.

So interestingly, if the Bach 36 outside tube is 0.567" ID, then the clearance for it on a 607 inner is 0.013", or right where it should be.[/quote]

Honestly, .012 to .014 is getting to be sloppy for a pro horn. Pragmatic for student stuff, probably, though Yamaha sticks with .010, which is the middle of the road for most manufacturers. Older Bachs tend to be .007 or .008, and I think that's true of Williams too. Above .012, you know about the compression loss in 6th and 7th. Nice action, of course...

blap73 · by **blap73** » 2024-03-22 6:25 p.m.

@ithinknot - so that got me to pull out the bore gauge. The existing 607 outer slide ID is .564" (give or take .001 for wear & tear). That would be a .010" total clearance.

Cross the Bach 36 tubes off the list.

Still looking for dimensions on the Yamaha .525 (SL645 etc).

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2024-03-22 7:15 p.m.

Am I understanding correctly that there should be a gap of .005" between the inner stocking and the outer on each side, since the actual gap would be half of the total difference in diameters. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2024-03-22 8:45 p.m.

[quote="BarryDaniels"]Am I understanding correctly that there should be a gap of .005" between the inner stocking and the outer on each side, since the actual gap would be half of the total difference in diameters. Sorry if this is a dumb question.[/quote]

yes

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0.525 (nominal) slide tubes