"I Don't Play No Sharps"

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2024-03-22 9:38 a.m.

I have a side gig playing baritone in a small church band (trumpet, me, alto, cello, violin and piano) and I've been with them only for a month. We have orchestration books that go with the hymnal the church uses. The instruments simply play the SATB voicings of the hymns. The baritone book is the tenor voice.

Last night our second hymn was Victory In Jesus (in the key of A). Right away I knew something was wrong. I thought that maybe as a trombonist I was having a Senior Moment and had forgotten the fingerings on the baritone. After about four bars I figured that my part was misprinted and everyone else was playing in the key of Eb. We finished our portion of the service and headed down to sit in the pews for the preaching. I double checked that tune in the hymnal, and sure enough I found it WAS written in 3 sharps. At this point the piano player (someone sitting in for the usual musician) leaned over and said, "Sorry. I should have told you that I don't play no sharps". Apparently, when this piano player is in the group, everyone knows to change sharps to flats, but nobody bothered to tell me.

In the 50+ years I've been a musician, I've played every type of music imaginable with both amateurs and pros all over the country and this was the first time I encountered this situation.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2024-03-22 10:13 a.m.

The string players must have been irate. String players hate flats and love sharps (for sharps you just move the finger a short distance up the string toward the bridge; for flats, what do you do on an open string?).

The piano player needs an Irving Berlin piano. He had a mechanism that shifted the keys over so whatever key was wanted, he played C.

bitbckt · by **bitbckt** » 2024-03-22 11:15 a.m.

In a similar vein to the Berlin piano, a digital piano with built-in transposition would be a modern option for the obstinate or “quirky”.

Since the whole group already functions this way, I guess “don’t invite him back” is off the table.

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2024-03-22 11:47 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]The string players must have been irate. String players hate flats and love sharps (for sharps you just move the finger a short distance up the string toward the bridge; for flats, what do you do on an open string?).[/quote]

I suspect the "open string" thing is only important when they want that characteristic sound, which helps define an orchestra, but not so much when they're just covering choral parts.

SteveFoote · by **SteveFoote** » 2024-03-22 12:11 p.m.

Baptist for many years. I go back to the Broadman Hymnal with shaped notes. Almost every piano player I have played with changes the key when there are sharps. They were probably playing in A flat which uses the same notes on the page. Most piano players are not "concert" trained even though they are very skilled. This also lowers the pitch for the congregation and choir which makes the sopranos screech just a tad less.

Now you know a very special secret!

bitbckt · by **bitbckt** » 2024-03-22 12:48 p.m.

[quote="SteveFoote"]which makes the sopranos screech just a tad less.[/quote]

I’ve changed my mind: this is no longer a problem to be solved, it’s a feature! :lol:

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2024-03-22 2:54 p.m.

[quote="bitbckt"]In a similar vein to the Berlin piano, a digital piano with built-in transposition would be a modern option for the obstinate or “quirky”.[/quote]

I wonder if anyone here ever uses a Superbone just to transpose.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2024-03-22 3:32 p.m.

At least he used proper grammar when he told you.

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2024-03-22 3:43 p.m.

[quote="SteveFoote"]with shaped notes[/quote]

I've never heard of this. I learned something new today!

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-03-22 3:47 p.m.

That's a great story. I play in my share of churches with some musical kooks. Now I'll be prepared for that little bit of insanity.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2024-03-22 5:42 p.m.

as a trombonist I wish I could get away with that statement. "I don't play no sharps". sounds reasonable to me. :-)

u_2bobone · by **u_2bobone** » 2024-03-22 6:03 p.m.

"The piano player needs an Irving Berlin piano. He had a mechanism that shifted the keys over so whatever key was wanted, he played C."

I worked a part time job in the laboratory of The Smithsonian Institution Musical Instrument Division years ago and there was such a piano there in storage. It had a special pedal that moved the entire keyboard left and right when activated and was the oddest thing I'd ever seen. The "key blocks" at either end were very wide to accommodate the moving keys as they went in and out of their little "garage". I don't remember which company Irving talked into building it but I'll bet they didn't make many !

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2024-03-22 6:45 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]The string players must have been irate. String players hate flats and love sharps (for sharps you just move the finger a short distance up the string toward the bridge; for flats, what do you do on an open string?).[/quote]
I never understood this. Would you not, for example, use the same fingerings to play a Db major scale as you would to play a C# major scale? Every flat has an enharmonic equivalent that's either a sharp or a natural, so how could one fingering be easier or harder than the other if it's the same note?

The piano player needs an Irving Berlin piano. He had a mechanism that shifted the keys over so whatever key was wanted, he played C.

Actually, he always played in F#.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2024-03-22 6:50 p.m.

[quote="AtomicClock"]

I wonder if anyone here ever uses a Superbone just to transpose.[/quote]

I tried that once. It makes a lot of sense in theory, but in practice, the further you get away from Bb, the more ridiculously out of tune the scale becomes. I suppose you could learn to play it in tune, but would that be any less work than just learning to play in different keys?

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-03-22 7:00 p.m.

Some people turn being lazy into an awful lot of work. Its crazy the extent some people will go to avoid learning something.

BrassSection · by **BrassSection** » 2024-03-22 7:29 p.m.

Years ago we had an organ player like that in church, but at least she informed everybody about switching to flats…one time only. Now it’s meeting what the singer can do range wise. Same song can be done in multiple keys depending on who is singing. At least the chord sheet is USUALLY in the right key. Not unusual to have a last minute switch. No big deal, played for years without anything but a list, and sometimes the key was noted that we were gonna play it in. No problem with trumpet, trombone, or euph, but French horn transposing sometimes keeps the old brain working. At least is has 2 tuning slides…F and Eb. Only used Eb one time. I’m used to the correct concert pitch fingering the F horn in any key.

tbdana · by **tbdana** » 2024-03-22 9:28 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Some people turn being lazy into an awful lot of work. Its crazy the extent some people will go to avoid learning something.[/quote]

Mamaposaune · by **Mamaposaune** » 2024-03-23 1:13 p.m.

This reminds me of a situation my husband found himself in years ago with the community orchestra he plays in. There was a guy who joined to play the 2nd part, hubby was noticing a lot of tuning(?) issues, and soon realized that he was playing every piece in Bb. When hubby would point out the key, which of course usually involved sharps, the guy stated (with a chuckle) "Oh, yeah. Well, I don't do sharps!" It probably goes without saying his reaction when a piece in tenor clef first showed up on his stand.

Fortunarely, by mutual agreement, he did not last long.

hwlentz · by **hwlentz** » 2024-03-25 11:18 a.m.

Sent this story to my church organist last week. We do a quick run through of the hymns on Sunday morning. This week both were in Bb. You guessed it - she turned to me before the first hymn and said “I don’t play no flats.”

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2024-03-25 11:23 a.m.

[quote="hwlentz"]Sent this story to my church organist last week. We do a quick run through of the hymns on Sunday morning. This week both were in Bb. You guessed it - she turned to me before the first hymn and said “I don’t play no flats.”[/quote]dripped.

BrassSection · by **BrassSection** » 2024-03-27 8:46 p.m.

[quote="officermayo"]I have a side gig playing baritone in a small church band (trumpet, me, alto, cello, violin and piano) and I've been with them only for a month. We have orchestration books that go with the hymnal the church uses. The instruments simply play the SATB voicings of the hymns. The baritone book is the tenor voice.”[/quote]
Wondering what books you use for your band, what level are your fellow players, and how do you get people to even play?

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2024-03-27 11:51 p.m.

Well, the leader doesn't read music and the choir sings the melody in unison. Here's a link to the orchestra book.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://nvpublications.org/collections/ ... tone-cello">https://nvpublications.org/collections/songs-and-hymns-of-revival/products/songs-hymns-of-revival-orchestration-trombone-baritone-cello</LINK_TEXT>

Getting people to play?

The violinist is the pastor's daughter and the trumpet player is my best friend from Jr High School in '72 (that's how I got roped into playing).

BrassSection · by **BrassSection** » 2024-03-28 5:58 p.m.

Hardly anybody but guitar and keyboard players want to play weekly because all we get is a chord sheet for music, keys subject to change anytime. Not much more luck with trying to put ensembles together. No regular players in the church, just “I used too…” Some have tried, until time for first practice. One trumpet player that hadn’t played for years at least shower up and did ok. Also had a French horn playing college student use my trumpet once with success. Normally it winds up with myself on whatever horn is needed, grandson on trumpet or my euph, daughter on French horn, and our drummer who is a tuba player and band director who can also fill in on any brass horn needed. Do have a pro trumpet player that joins us every couple of months for a Sunday service. Added trumpet is nice to have! Years ago we had a sax player that moved out of the area, and before him a trombone playing college student that moved on.

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