Besson 10-10 Mystery
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
Hey everyone,
Been hunting down a Besson 10-10 for a while, never played one but was curious about them more than anything. Finally picked 2 up within a week of each other.
Oddly enough, one doesn’t have any serial number on it - curious if anyone has any ideas of what may have happened.
I’ve looked at a bunch of serial sheets, there are gaps etc. but thought this was interesting.
Thanks!
Logan
Been hunting down a Besson 10-10 for a while, never played one but was curious about them more than anything. Finally picked 2 up within a week of each other.
Oddly enough, one doesn’t have any serial number on it - curious if anyone has any ideas of what may have happened.
I’ve looked at a bunch of serial sheets, there are gaps etc. but thought this was interesting.
Thanks!
Logan
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
Hope you are enjoying your 10-10s. I have one which has had an aftermarket F section added and I use it mostly for 3rd chair in big band music, sometimes it goes below E natural and often the trigger makes life much easier at the bottom of the stave.
As for your missing serial number, that is a mystery. It usually works the other way round i.e. the instrument has a serial number but the work books don't, there is a gap in the number sequence and the instrument is somewhere in the middle. The work books are held in the Horniman Museum and Library in SE London along with the old Boosey & Hawkes instrument collection, moved there when the Edgeware Road factory closed.
Do both instruments have the same engraving on the bell?
Photographs might be useful.
Cheers
Stewbones43
As for your missing serial number, that is a mystery. It usually works the other way round i.e. the instrument has a serial number but the work books don't, there is a gap in the number sequence and the instrument is somewhere in the middle. The work books are held in the Horniman Museum and Library in SE London along with the old Boosey & Hawkes instrument collection, moved there when the Edgeware Road factory closed.
Do both instruments have the same engraving on the bell?
Photographs might be useful.
Cheers
Stewbones43
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
Good find! I looked for decades and finally found one. I played a silver one in high school (67-69) and loved it. Way underrated in the US.
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
[quote="walldaja"]Good find! I looked for decades and finally found one. I played a silver one in high school (67-69) and loved it. Way underrated in the US.[/quote]
Yeah super pumped - I’d been waiting for one to pop up for a long time. Naturally two did within a week of each other. One for 300 and one for 150. Both need some minor dent work and cleaning, real excited to get them back from the shop.
Yeah super pumped - I’d been waiting for one to pop up for a long time. Naturally two did within a week of each other. One for 300 and one for 150. Both need some minor dent work and cleaning, real excited to get them back from the shop.
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
Thanks for the photographs, unfortunately they do not shed any light on the missing serial number.
My 10-10 from 1958 has the same engraving as your 2 and its serial number is in the normal place for B&H/Besson trombones of that era, i.e. on the underside of the bell spout, just in front of the first bell brace. I don't know of any other place used by the makers in the past 70 years or so.
The only suggestion I can come up with is that, at some point in time, the original bell was replaced by a new one of the correct pattern and engraving but without a serial number. This is only conjecture and regrettably cannot be proven or disproven!
Still, you have 2 nice trombones to enjoy.
Cheers
Stewbones43
My 10-10 from 1958 has the same engraving as your 2 and its serial number is in the normal place for B&H/Besson trombones of that era, i.e. on the underside of the bell spout, just in front of the first bell brace. I don't know of any other place used by the makers in the past 70 years or so.
The only suggestion I can come up with is that, at some point in time, the original bell was replaced by a new one of the correct pattern and engraving but without a serial number. This is only conjecture and regrettably cannot be proven or disproven!
Still, you have 2 nice trombones to enjoy.
Cheers
Stewbones43
- rzeilinger
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Apr 04, 2022
I just acquired a Besson 10-10 today from 1948. I've been hunting for one for over a year. Some have been available but not what I was looking for which was cheap & damaged. Well, I found cheap & damaged. About $135 USD.
Surprisingly the slide is in pretty good condition and the reason I believe is in it's construction....Meaning?
Well, first this is a mid bore .523 slide. First carry it felt heavy so I removed the outer slide and weighed it.
I was right...the outer slide is approximately 10.4 oz....pretty heavy by any standard for a mid bore and even a large bore trombone.
Now, the entire trombone weighs 3lbs 2.4oz which is actually not that heavy. A Conn 6H is 2.8 - 3.00 lbs to give you some reference. So the Bell section is light which came pretty mangled and will be easy to recover.
upon playing it, first blow offered a very open feel , but well supported & bold and I'm sure that has to do with the heavy weight slide and a relatively light weight bell section.
I'm happy to finally have it as it fills in my collection of Besson Tenor trombones.
Besson 403 Academy, Besson 2-20, Besson 8-10, and now Besson 10-10.
I'll be doing a presentation video on it in the near future on my Youtube channel "Ron'Z Tbone Shed"
hope this provides some insight to you all.
Ron Z
Surprisingly the slide is in pretty good condition and the reason I believe is in it's construction....Meaning?
Well, first this is a mid bore .523 slide. First carry it felt heavy so I removed the outer slide and weighed it.
I was right...the outer slide is approximately 10.4 oz....pretty heavy by any standard for a mid bore and even a large bore trombone.
Now, the entire trombone weighs 3lbs 2.4oz which is actually not that heavy. A Conn 6H is 2.8 - 3.00 lbs to give you some reference. So the Bell section is light which came pretty mangled and will be easy to recover.
upon playing it, first blow offered a very open feel , but well supported & bold and I'm sure that has to do with the heavy weight slide and a relatively light weight bell section.
I'm happy to finally have it as it fills in my collection of Besson Tenor trombones.
Besson 403 Academy, Besson 2-20, Besson 8-10, and now Besson 10-10.
I'll be doing a presentation video on it in the near future on my Youtube channel "Ron'Z Tbone Shed"
hope this provides some insight to you all.
Ron Z
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
[quote="rzeilinger"]
I'm happy to finally have it as it completely my collection of Besson Tenor trombones.
Besson Academy, Besson 2-20, Besson 8-10, and now Besson 10-10.
I'll be doing a presentation video on it in the near future on my Youtube channel "Ron'Z Garage"
hope this provides some insight to you all.
Ron Z[/quote]
Congratulations on your new addition to the Besson trombone family, but I regret you have quite a few more to collect to get a complete set!!!
The 2-20, 8-10 and 10-10 were made specifically for the US market, along with a 10-10 bass (Bb/F; 0.555in bore and a 9 in bell. So, a small bass, ideal for those times when using a standard large bass is like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut, think Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert and Schumann)
You have a Besson Academy, but which one.
Academy 402, bore 0.487in. bell 7.25in. The most common model
Academy 403, bore 0.487in. bell 7.75in.
Academy 404, bore 0.523in. bell 8.00in. Similar to the 10-10
Academy 406, bore 0.451in. bell 6.00in. Eb Alto-very rare
Academy 407, bore 0.487in. bell 7.75in. Bb/F-very rare
Academy 408, bore 0.523in. bell 8.00in. Bb/F
Academy 409, Bore 0.555in. bell 9.00in. Small bass, Same as the 10-10 bass and numerous other Besson and Boosey and Hawkes models.
I have not yet found out what happened to Academies 401 and 405.
There were many other post war Besson trombones but they would be quite rare in the US but more common in the British Commonwealth Countries.
Enjoy your Best of British and carry on collecting.
Cheers
Stewbones43
I'm happy to finally have it as it completely my collection of Besson Tenor trombones.
Besson Academy, Besson 2-20, Besson 8-10, and now Besson 10-10.
I'll be doing a presentation video on it in the near future on my Youtube channel "Ron'Z Garage"
hope this provides some insight to you all.
Ron Z[/quote]
Congratulations on your new addition to the Besson trombone family, but I regret you have quite a few more to collect to get a complete set!!!
The 2-20, 8-10 and 10-10 were made specifically for the US market, along with a 10-10 bass (Bb/F; 0.555in bore and a 9 in bell. So, a small bass, ideal for those times when using a standard large bass is like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut, think Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert and Schumann)
You have a Besson Academy, but which one.
Academy 402, bore 0.487in. bell 7.25in. The most common model
Academy 403, bore 0.487in. bell 7.75in.
Academy 404, bore 0.523in. bell 8.00in. Similar to the 10-10
Academy 406, bore 0.451in. bell 6.00in. Eb Alto-very rare
Academy 407, bore 0.487in. bell 7.75in. Bb/F-very rare
Academy 408, bore 0.523in. bell 8.00in. Bb/F
Academy 409, Bore 0.555in. bell 9.00in. Small bass, Same as the 10-10 bass and numerous other Besson and Boosey and Hawkes models.
I have not yet found out what happened to Academies 401 and 405.
There were many other post war Besson trombones but they would be quite rare in the US but more common in the British Commonwealth Countries.
Enjoy your Best of British and carry on collecting.
Cheers
Stewbones43
- rzeilinger
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Apr 04, 2022
My Academy is 403 and there is a cool story behind that. Since I bought it 3 years ago, I have not seen another at all.
For me though having the 2-20, 8-10, 10-10 is a complete collection :-)
The rest, thanks to you are horns I can look out for.
Can you tell me what the design & construction differences are between the Academys and the -10's (and-20)
Or are they essentially the same horns with different names for the US & Euro markets?
For me though having the 2-20, 8-10, 10-10 is a complete collection :-)
The rest, thanks to you are horns I can look out for.
Can you tell me what the design & construction differences are between the Academys and the -10's (and-20)
Or are they essentially the same horns with different names for the US & Euro markets?
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
I might be interested in selling my Besson collection if anyone is interested.
1 lacquer 10-10
1 silver 10-10
1 silver Academy
1 lacquer 10-10
1 silver 10-10
1 silver Academy
- rzeilinger
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Apr 04, 2022
which Academy is it?
- rzeilinger
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Apr 04, 2022
Your Academy should have a model number on the Bell.
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
- rzeilinger
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Apr 04, 2022
drat. mine has a number
- Logan
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 05, 2024
All good. Either way, listed all of them for sale. Thinning out the herd…
Brass 10-10: https://bit.ly/43Pz0Jw
Silver 10-10: https://bit.ly/4kZbUHn
Silver Academy: https://bit.ly/3Hzl52K
Brass 10-10: https://bit.ly/43Pz0Jw
Silver 10-10: https://bit.ly/4kZbUHn
Silver Academy: https://bit.ly/3Hzl52K