Help with Identification
- wkumax
- Posts: 2
- Joined: May 27, 2024
Hello,
Any thoughts on what this might be?
Bell section simply says “Liberty Made in Elkhart Ind. USA”
Counterweight looks like a globe showing North America
Number stamped on tuning slide is “124”
Slide mates up fine, it has the number “8243”
[url]https://ibb.co/n1TWWv8
[url]https://ibb.co/r2DD3kL
[url]https://ibb.co/d75pn0V
Thanks for any help!
Any thoughts on what this might be?
Bell section simply says “Liberty Made in Elkhart Ind. USA”
Counterweight looks like a globe showing North America
Number stamped on tuning slide is “124”
Slide mates up fine, it has the number “8243”
Thanks for any help!
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
It is most probably a Conn stencil sold by companies like Jenkins Music. Are the slide stockings one piece or soldered on?
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
An early (1930's ?) Liberty trombone made by King; later morphed into the Liberty 2B, then just 2B.
The Liberty horn has been discussed here in the past.
Use a Google search for "liberty trombone" for a better search of this forum than the local search function delivers.
The Liberty horn has been discussed here in the past.
Use a Google search for "liberty trombone" for a better search of this forum than the local search function delivers.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
[quote="CharlieB"]An early (1930's ?) Liberty trombone made by King; later morphed into the Liberty 2B, then just 2B.
The Liberty horn has been discussed here in the past.
Use a Google search for "liberty trombone" for a better search of this forum than the local search function delivers.[/quote]
But a Liberty like you describe would more likely than not say something along the lines of: "Made by the H.N. White company, Cleveland, OH" or such. This is not from the same factory, let alone state.
I'm leaning Conn (maybe Beuscher?) like @OneTon.
The Liberty horn has been discussed here in the past.
Use a Google search for "liberty trombone" for a better search of this forum than the local search function delivers.[/quote]
But a Liberty like you describe would more likely than not say something along the lines of: "Made by the H.N. White company, Cleveland, OH" or such. This is not from the same factory, let alone state.
I'm leaning Conn (maybe Beuscher?) like @OneTon.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Compare it to this Pan American trombone on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282
In particular, take look at the counterweights.
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<ATTACHMENT filename="s-l1600.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]s-l1600.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
I'd say that's pretty conclusive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282
In particular, take look at the counterweights.
<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG-9887.jpg" index="1">
<ATTACHMENT filename="s-l1600.jpg" index="0">
I'd say that's pretty conclusive.
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
[quote="wkumax"]Counterweight looks like a globe showing North America[/quote]
South America, too! :o
[quote="JohnL"]Compare it to this Pan American trombone on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282[/quote]
The Western Hemisphere is engraved on the bell too, so I'm pretty confident the counterweight belongs with the horn.
South America, too! :o
[quote="JohnL"]Compare it to this Pan American trombone on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282[/quote]
The Western Hemisphere is engraved on the bell too, so I'm pretty confident the counterweight belongs with the horn.
- wkumax
- Posts: 2
- Joined: May 27, 2024
[quote="JohnL"]Compare it to this Pan American trombone on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282
In particular, take look at the counterweights.
IMG-9887.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
I'd say that's pretty conclusive.[/quote]
Thanks, this looks to be very close to what I’ve got. Bell engraving is entirely different but braces, counterweight, curved thumb rest … all looks identical.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293426570282
In particular, take look at the counterweights.
IMG-9887.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
I'd say that's pretty conclusive.[/quote]
Thanks, this looks to be very close to what I’ve got. Bell engraving is entirely different but braces, counterweight, curved thumb rest … all looks identical.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Pan-American (adjective): of, relating to, or involving the independent republics of North and South America
i.e. Western Hemisphere. As illustrated on the counterweight.
Note soldered stockings in eBay photo. This is not a recently-made trombone.
Were there multiple brass instrument factories in Elkhart, Indiana in the 1920s-1930s?
Which one made "Pan American" trombones?
i.e. Western Hemisphere. As illustrated on the counterweight.
Note soldered stockings in eBay photo. This is not a recently-made trombone.
Were there multiple brass instrument factories in Elkhart, Indiana in the 1920s-1930s?
Which one made "Pan American" trombones?
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]Which one made "Pan American" trombones?[/quote]
Pan-American was a subsidiary of Conn; essentially it was the brand they used for what we would consider student models today.
Pan-American was a subsidiary of Conn; essentially it was the brand they used for what we would consider student models today.
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
What I have understood, probably from this site, was in the bad old days all instruments made by reputable manufacturers were professional instruments. This is not to say that there no junk manufacturers building crap that tended to emulate elephants passing gas. Then there was a transition period that Conn was a big part of as it lobbied to fund early age music education initiatives, which then created a demand for higher volume and less expensive instruments. This Liberty looks like an earlier professional stencil instrument with a Pan American counter weight that would have been built under the same roof as Conn. or it could be a Conn stencil horn that someone added a Pan American counter weight to improve balance, and because it fit.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Pan-American was established specifically to produce instruments that could be sold at a price point lower than those sold under the Conn name. I'm not entirely clear on its exact relationship with Conn; it was founded by Carl Greenleaf, who was the president of C. G. Conn at the time, and it was officially located in a facility owned by Conn (though not the main Conn factory), but it seems to have been (on paper, at least) a separate company. Was Pan-American production separate from Conn production? Or were they produced together? Or was it somewhere in between - perhaps components made by Conn, but assembled in a separate Pan-American facility? I don't know.
In addition to their namesake brand, Pan-American also produced the Cavalier and Continental Colonial lines, as well as stencils and "jobber" line models.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/PanAmHModels.html
There's stories that Pan-American used components (or even entire instruments) that didn't pass muster at Conn, though I tend to discount that.
In addition to their namesake brand, Pan-American also produced the Cavalier and Continental Colonial lines, as well as stencils and "jobber" line models.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/PanAmHModels.html
There's stories that Pan-American used components (or even entire instruments) that didn't pass muster at Conn, though I tend to discount that.