Help with Rochut No 9
- jimazing
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Feb 29, 2024
I need help on bar 54 with the G octaves. I can play it but I can't seem to play it without the in between partials making a contribution. My best attempts but the high G solid, but sounds bumpy on the way up.
I don't want to practice it wrong over and over in hopes of getting it right. That seems like reinforcing the problem. Any pointers or thoughts?
I don't want to practice it wrong over and over in hopes of getting it right. That seems like reinforcing the problem. Any pointers or thoughts?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Say "wee" on the way up.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You might also try playing something on the beats, like repeat the lower G. Or just practice it out of context with slurred 1/8th notes octave Gs - low g high g low g high g....
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
One thing I like to practice is the same passage in different keys.
Play the passage a couple of times correctly in G then move it down in 1/2 steps (Gb, F (6th), and maybe even E (7th)). Then make your way back up in 1/2 steps until you get back to G. The move it up (Ab, A and Bb), and then come back down. By that point you would've play this passage in many keys multiple times and hopefully have the physical concept down along with the octaves in your ear.
But really, just do what Doug said, "weee"
Play the passage a couple of times correctly in G then move it down in 1/2 steps (Gb, F (6th), and maybe even E (7th)). Then make your way back up in 1/2 steps until you get back to G. The move it up (Ab, A and Bb), and then come back down. By that point you would've play this passage in many keys multiple times and hopefully have the physical concept down along with the octaves in your ear.
But really, just do what Doug said, "weee"
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Something that helps me with upward slurs is thinking about emphasizing the lower note rather than laying for the top note. Seems counterintuitive but it works for me.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Out of interest, who plays this all in 4th (with adjustments as necessary) and who plays the G on short 2nd?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I would play the G's in 4th (these octaves shouldn't need an adjustment unless your backbore is "wrong"), but not the A.
A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".
A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I pretty.much never play high G in 4th. I think it would be more secure going from 4th to #2, and backing off on the air. Which is in line with what brassmedic said, emphasizing the lower note, but I don't look at it that way.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Moving 4-2 automatically gives the second note a boost. And if I could suggest something I do that's similar but slightly different from Doug, I add a little H in there, so something like WHEE, but as Doug says, without emphasizing the top note. By raising the tongue, you need a little kick in there to push out the air through the smaller aperture, but without accenting it.
- VJOFan
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Apr 06, 2018
The intensity changes mentioned above make sense from my own practice.
Have you played the octaves out of context? Change the passage to all quarter notes in 4/4 and slur it all together.
A next step would be to add a quarter rest before each lower G so you can introduce the articulation. If that is working, practice the rhythm of the piece, then add the pitches.
And I would avoid breathing or lifting the mouthpiece during this section.
Have you played the octaves out of context? Change the passage to all quarter notes in 4/4 and slur it all together.
A next step would be to add a quarter rest before each lower G so you can introduce the articulation. If that is working, practice the rhythm of the piece, then add the pitches.
And I would avoid breathing or lifting the mouthpiece during this section.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]I would play the G's in 4th (these octaves shouldn't need an adjustment unless your backbore is "wrong"), but not the A.
A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".[/quote]
*backbore not matched well to the horn. Same mpc/backbore taper may not function the same in different horns. Works great on the 50.. the 45 is all out of whack here.
But, yeah, I would only move the slide here to force myself to get into it a little if I’m missing the top G a lot. And I’d be mad about it, too. I’m, uh, not going to pull this out now, because I don’t want to be mad at myself today…
Cheers,
Andy
A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".[/quote]
*backbore not matched well to the horn. Same mpc/backbore taper may not function the same in different horns. Works great on the 50.. the 45 is all out of whack here.
But, yeah, I would only move the slide here to force myself to get into it a little if I’m missing the top G a lot. And I’d be mad about it, too. I’m, uh, not going to pull this out now, because I don’t want to be mad at myself today…
Cheers,
Andy
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I always would play both Gs in 4th position on this. I'm all about efficiency, especially slide efficiency. If I can play two notes in the same position, that's what I do.
When I slur octaves I play a little psychological trick on myself. I don't think of it as a slur, because then I get the partials leaking in. I think of it as a leap, and all my concentration is on the upper note and having the feel for that note. Another psychological trick that works for me in this is thinking "down to the high note," if that makes any sense. Thinking down while going up helps me center where the note is, and lets me avoid those intermediate partials.
Of course, I'm usually out of step with the hive mind here, so do your own thing and understand that your mileage may vary.
When I slur octaves I play a little psychological trick on myself. I don't think of it as a slur, because then I get the partials leaking in. I think of it as a leap, and all my concentration is on the upper note and having the feel for that note. Another psychological trick that works for me in this is thinking "down to the high note," if that makes any sense. Thinking down while going up helps me center where the note is, and lets me avoid those intermediate partials.
Of course, I'm usually out of step with the hive mind here, so do your own thing and understand that your mileage may vary.
- cmccain
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Apr 29, 2024
I can't offer much that hasn't already been said here, but if you have the Arban Method book, "Studies on the Slur" Exercises #11, #12, and #13 became part of my daily routine when I worked on Rochut No 9. Might be a good warm-up before/along with targeting the octave jump itself.