Ultra-Pure Oils Joins Eastman Music Company
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
First saw this on FB a few days ago, and meant to post it, but forgot. Hopefully this will not cause any changes in the quality and availability of their excellent products.
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- HornboneandVocals
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Oct 04, 2023
Used to use ultrapure and loved it, but it got so hard to find for me (2022 era) so I switched to Yamaha. Maybe I’ll switch back if Eastman makes it easier to get.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="HornboneandVocals"]Used to use ultrapure and loved it, but it got so hard to find for me (2022 era) so I switched to Yamaha. Maybe I’ll switch back if Eastman makes it easier to get.[/quote]
Ultra-pure has never been hard to get- the source always has it. Perhaps you mean Hetman?
https://www.ultrapureoils.com/
Ultra-pure has never been hard to get- the source always has it. Perhaps you mean Hetman?
https://www.ultrapureoils.com/
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
This could be really good. Ultra pure products in more retail stores... What could they cut corners on? Quality of oil surely cant go down right like with aquisition of Shires, I hope not atleast
- HornboneandVocals
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Oct 04, 2023
[quote="Burgerbob"]
Ultra-pure has never been hard to get- the source always has it. Perhaps you mean Hetman?
https://www.ultrapureoils.com/[/quote]
My mistake. I meant the ultra pure alessi formula wasn’t on amazon for a period of time (maybe still isn’t? I looked quickly and didn’t see it, and it wasn’t in my local shop and I didn’t think to look elsewhere.
Ultra-pure has never been hard to get- the source always has it. Perhaps you mean Hetman?
https://www.ultrapureoils.com/[/quote]
My mistake. I meant the ultra pure alessi formula wasn’t on amazon for a period of time (maybe still isn’t? I looked quickly and didn’t see it, and it wasn’t in my local shop and I didn’t think to look elsewhere.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Elow"]This could be really good. Ultra pure products in more retail stores... What could they cut corners on? Quality of oil surely cant go down right like with aquisition of Shires, I hope not atleast[/quote]
I think it's the other way around. The customer base for expensive trombones is much more likely to be sensitive to quality and to understand, at least on a basic level, what makes a good trombone.
The customer base for trombone oil is far far less likely to understand what is in the bottle, if that has changed at all, and if corners have been cut. I'm not saying that Eastman will do that, but I think less people in trombone world would be be able to tell if they did.
I think it's the other way around. The customer base for expensive trombones is much more likely to be sensitive to quality and to understand, at least on a basic level, what makes a good trombone.
The customer base for trombone oil is far far less likely to understand what is in the bottle, if that has changed at all, and if corners have been cut. I'm not saying that Eastman will do that, but I think less people in trombone world would be be able to tell if they did.
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
Maybe. Maybe not. Unilever still claims they did not change Pond’s Cold Cream. I don’t know if TC is representative or not. If you think they’re cranky about their slides, try putting a pea under their mattress.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Unilever didn't change the formula. They just cleaned the machines and vats one time.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]The customer base for trombone oil is far far less likely to understand what is in the bottle, if that has changed at all, and if corners have been cut. I'm not saying that Eastman will do that, but I think less people in trombone world would be be able to tell if they did.[/quote]
Yeah, and most people might not even care -- because "brand loyalty" in instrument lubricants often seems to defy rationality and objective experience. Plus, there are about 800% more valve/slide oils available on the market (okay, that's just subjective estimate, but ...) than there are premium trombone manufacturers. And the risk/benefit/cost ratios are a lot different. Every valve/slide oil/cream/paste/slime/ritual has its semi-religious devotees, and it would take a lot for them to switch. (I'll grant you that this is probably more pronounced in the valved instrument market than in trombones. :roll: )
Yeah, and most people might not even care -- because "brand loyalty" in instrument lubricants often seems to defy rationality and objective experience. Plus, there are about 800% more valve/slide oils available on the market (okay, that's just subjective estimate, but ...) than there are premium trombone manufacturers. And the risk/benefit/cost ratios are a lot different. Every valve/slide oil/cream/paste/slime/ritual has its semi-religious devotees, and it would take a lot for them to switch. (I'll grant you that this is probably more pronounced in the valved instrument market than in trombones. :roll: )
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
[quote="harrisonreed"]Unilever didn't change the formula. They just cleaned the machines and vats one time.[/quote] <EMOJI seq="1f604" tseq="1f604">😄</EMOJI>
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
At the hardware store, I bought a quart of Ultra Pure Lamp Oil for about what you pay for 4 ounces of the music market stuff. I was playing a bit of tuba at the time and going through a fair bit of it. Seems to work just as good as the other. I use it on euph and trombone valves. Its clear and doesn't smell like some of the other brands.
I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.
I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]At the hardware store, I bought a quart of Ultra Pure Lamp Oil for about what you pay for 4 ounces of the music market stuff. I was playing a bit of tuba at the time and going through a fair bit of it. Seems to work just as good as the other.[/quote]
:lol: This is a very popular view/approach of several (but particularly one) adherent on the tuba forum. I tried it once, but wasn't at all surprised about the properties of kerosene as a valve lubricant. To each his own.
:lol: This is a very popular view/approach of several (but particularly one) adherent on the tuba forum. I tried it once, but wasn't at all surprised about the properties of kerosene as a valve lubricant. To each his own.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="ghmerrill"]:lol: This is a very popular view/approach of several (but particularly one) adherent on the tuba forum. I tried it once, but wasn't at all surprised about the properties of kerosene as a valve lubricant. To each his own.[/quote]
Yeah, I heard it so much I had to try it instead of throwing money at those little bottles. Its definitely some kind of petroleum, but it doesn't smell like kerosene, and it has parafin. Anyway, it works and doesn't smell as bad as Blue Juice, and I really don't appreciate throwing all that money at secondary instruments. I really can't tell the difference between lube properties of the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff, so I gave a quart of this stuff a try. I won't run out for a few years.
Yeah, I heard it so much I had to try it instead of throwing money at those little bottles. Its definitely some kind of petroleum, but it doesn't smell like kerosene, and it has parafin. Anyway, it works and doesn't smell as bad as Blue Juice, and I really don't appreciate throwing all that money at secondary instruments. I really can't tell the difference between lube properties of the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff, so I gave a quart of this stuff a try. I won't run out for a few years.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]Yeah, I heard it so much I had to try it instead of throwing money at those little bottles. Its definitely some kind of petroleum, but it doesn't smell like kerosene, and it has parafin.[/quote]
You may be confusing paraffin oil with paraffin wax when you say "it has parafin." But I won't go into that here. It's easy enough to find the distinction in any number of places on the web. Also, keep in mind that in the UK "paraffin" is used as a synonym for "kerosene." In the US we tend to make a somewhat finer distinction. The "paraffin wax" is different.
But the valve lubricant issue is often a matter of (literally) taste (and smell). For my part, I prefer a valve lubricant that has no taste or smell, and that I don't have to apply every 5 minutes. The synthetic oils I use typically last a week or longer between applications to my piston valves. The lamp oil washes away very quickly -- which is why the old timers that often recommend it also are of the "lubricate your valves often" type -- meaning "whenever you begin to play and in between as necessary". I guess if I were in dire financial straits, I might resort to lamp oil, but then it's unlikely I'd still have a valved instrument to use it on. :roll: I do have some lamp oil -- but I use it in lamps. :)
You may be confusing paraffin oil with paraffin wax when you say "it has parafin." But I won't go into that here. It's easy enough to find the distinction in any number of places on the web. Also, keep in mind that in the UK "paraffin" is used as a synonym for "kerosene." In the US we tend to make a somewhat finer distinction. The "paraffin wax" is different.
But the valve lubricant issue is often a matter of (literally) taste (and smell). For my part, I prefer a valve lubricant that has no taste or smell, and that I don't have to apply every 5 minutes. The synthetic oils I use typically last a week or longer between applications to my piston valves. The lamp oil washes away very quickly -- which is why the old timers that often recommend it also are of the "lubricate your valves often" type -- meaning "whenever you begin to play and in between as necessary". I guess if I were in dire financial straits, I might resort to lamp oil, but then it's unlikely I'd still have a valved instrument to use it on. :roll: I do have some lamp oil -- but I use it in lamps. :)
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]At the hardware store, I bought a quart of Ultra Pure Lamp Oil for about what you pay for 4 ounces of the music market stuff. I was playing a bit of tuba at the time and going through a fair bit of it. Seems to work just as good as the other. I use it on euph and trombone valves. Its clear and doesn't smell like some of the other brands.[/quote]
Is this what you're talking about?
<ATTACHMENT filename="31a354ba-b9aa-45f3-af4a-dbefc505522a.jpeg" index="0">[attachment=0]31a354ba-b9aa-45f3-af4a-dbefc505522a.jpeg</ATTACHMENT>
It should work fine as a valve oil; it's basically deodorized kerosene, which is what everyone used in the days before synthetic oils came along.
[quote="hyperbolica"]I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
I think the lamp oil is made by a different company (Lamplight Farms, Inc.) than the valve oil (Ultra-Pure Oils LLC).
Is this what you're talking about?
<ATTACHMENT filename="31a354ba-b9aa-45f3-af4a-dbefc505522a.jpeg" index="0">
It should work fine as a valve oil; it's basically deodorized kerosene, which is what everyone used in the days before synthetic oils came along.
[quote="hyperbolica"]I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
I think the lamp oil is made by a different company (Lamplight Farms, Inc.) than the valve oil (Ultra-Pure Oils LLC).
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]Is this what you're talking about?
It should work fine as a valve oil; it's basically deodorized kerosene, which is what everyone used in the days before synthetic oils came along.
<QUOTE author="hyperbolica" post_id="245265" time="1718380718" user_id="104">I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
I think the lamp oil is made by a different company (Lamplight Farms, Inc.) than the valve oil (Ultra-Pure Oils LLC).
</QUOTE>
Yeah, that's the stuff. It does work fine. I don't have valve instruments fancy enough to warrant spending 30X on them for valve oil.
It should work fine as a valve oil; it's basically deodorized kerosene, which is what everyone used in the days before synthetic oils came along.
<QUOTE author="hyperbolica" post_id="245265" time="1718380718" user_id="104">I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
I think the lamp oil is made by a different company (Lamplight Farms, Inc.) than the valve oil (Ultra-Pure Oils LLC).
</QUOTE>
Yeah, that's the stuff. It does work fine. I don't have valve instruments fancy enough to warrant spending 30X on them for valve oil.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
Well, I guess that's a thing with some people. I'll keep putting the high-priced synthetic stuff on my cheap Chinese bass trombone because of how it works and I can afford to spend the few dollars that costs once every year or two. Same with my euph and tubas. Sure, I could buy a quart of the lamp oil and save a "lot" of money -- depending on what a "lot" is to you. There was a time in my life when $2.00 was a lot, and beans were cheap.
A bottle of Yamaha Synthetic Valve Oil costs less than $7.00. I don't think I go through one over an entire year. Given my projected playing time, that's probably $70.00, max. Let's round up and call it $100. I'll happily pay that. Some won't. Life's too short. I worked hard for that $100 and I'm going to spend it to enjoy my valve oil. :lol:
A bottle of Yamaha Synthetic Valve Oil costs less than $7.00. I don't think I go through one over an entire year. Given my projected playing time, that's probably $70.00, max. Let's round up and call it $100. I'll happily pay that. Some won't. Life's too short. I worked hard for that $100 and I'm going to spend it to enjoy my valve oil. :lol:
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]At the hardware store, I bought a quart of Ultra Pure Lamp Oil for about what you pay for 4 ounces of the music market stuff. ... Its clear and doesn't smell like some of the other brands.
I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
As JohnL pointed out, these are completely different substances, with entirely different ingredients, made by different companies, for different purposes. The only similarities are that they are both oily, and have similar names (allowed by our Trademark laws, since they are names of completely different products).
I am a trombonist, not a trumpeteer, tubist, or euphemist, so I only use valve oil for my rotors (or axial valve). As Gary pointed out, the cost of decent, specialized trombone lubricants is negligible in the scheme of things. I probably have several years' supply with the few bottles I already own. [I keep my extra slide lubricant in the refrigerator.] Because they are purpose-formulated, these lubricants all function superbly with (literally) just a few drops applied weekly to whichever trombone I've been playing. If I should run out, I can afford the $10 for another bottle. My valves are smooth and silent; my slides are slippery. What more can I ask?
I wonder how corporate ownership will change the hardware store stuff.[/quote]
As JohnL pointed out, these are completely different substances, with entirely different ingredients, made by different companies, for different purposes. The only similarities are that they are both oily, and have similar names (allowed by our Trademark laws, since they are names of completely different products).
I am a trombonist, not a trumpeteer, tubist, or euphemist, so I only use valve oil for my rotors (or axial valve). As Gary pointed out, the cost of decent, specialized trombone lubricants is negligible in the scheme of things. I probably have several years' supply with the few bottles I already own. [I keep my extra slide lubricant in the refrigerator.] Because they are purpose-formulated, these lubricants all function superbly with (literally) just a few drops applied weekly to whichever trombone I've been playing. If I should run out, I can afford the $10 for another bottle. My valves are smooth and silent; my slides are slippery. What more can I ask?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I was thinking the same thing. There is something to be said for saving money, but do it by not buying the newest consumer electronics, cars that you don't need or can't afford, processed food, and by reducing your bills and unnecessary subscriptions. Saving $10 on a bottle of oil that should already last 1-2 years for a bottle of off label stuff that lasts 50 years ain't the move that's going to make you a millionaire.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Saving $10 on a bottle of oil that should already last 1-2 years for a bottle of off label stuff that lasts 50 years ain't the move that's going to make you a millionaire.[/quote]
At this point I also worry about the very realistic scenario in which I would end up leaving a partially full bottle of lamp oil for my children to dispose of when I die. As it is, unless we have some severe hurricane events in the next few years, and somehow the generator doesn't come through for us, it looks like they'll already be stuck with about a half bottle of lamp oil -- which they will almost certainly pitch in the trash but keep the propane and Coleman gas lanterns. That bottle of lamp oil has been around now for about 20 years. :lol:
At this point I also worry about the very realistic scenario in which I would end up leaving a partially full bottle of lamp oil for my children to dispose of when I die. As it is, unless we have some severe hurricane events in the next few years, and somehow the generator doesn't come through for us, it looks like they'll already be stuck with about a half bottle of lamp oil -- which they will almost certainly pitch in the trash but keep the propane and Coleman gas lanterns. That bottle of lamp oil has been around now for about 20 years. :lol:
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
Hey! Maybe I should put it in the "for sale" items here! At reduced price, of course.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
[quote="ghmerrill"]
Plus, there are about 800% more valve/slide oils available on the market (okay, that's just subjective estimate, but ...)[/quote]
Statistics show that 92.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot…
Plus, there are about 800% more valve/slide oils available on the market (okay, that's just subjective estimate, but ...)[/quote]
Statistics show that 92.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot…
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
Someone just needs to let me know if they have ever used up the tube of Trombotine before either losing it, stepping on it, or losing the cap.
Even when I was using my 42T as a daily driver for like 10 years, I never managed to use up one of the small hetman bottles of light rotor oil. A quart of lamp oil would probably end with me passing away, and 3/4 of it still left.
Well, unless I also us it to pretty much coat the entire inside of a tuba like I have heard some people do. Or maybe one person does.
Even when I was using my 42T as a daily driver for like 10 years, I never managed to use up one of the small hetman bottles of light rotor oil. A quart of lamp oil would probably end with me passing away, and 3/4 of it still left.
Well, unless I also us it to pretty much coat the entire inside of a tuba like I have heard some people do. Or maybe one person does.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Good for Ken Saul. He’s worked hard for the last 35 years or so to make some of the best oils and lubes in the business.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]Good for Ken Saul. He’s worked hard for the last 35 years or so to make some of the best oils and lubes in the business.[/quote]
:good:
:good:
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Kbiggs"]Good for Ken Saul. He’s worked hard for the last 35 years or so to make some of the best oils and lubes in the business.[/quote] This is a really great take. I am also a fan of craft beer, and I know some people get all up in arms when one of them "sells out" or something like that. I get that, in some ways, but not others. Joining Eastman means having a lot more financial stability for a business, and also the ability to eventually retire, while the business continues.
- JKBone85
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Jul 26, 2022
[quote="Kbiggs"]Good for Ken Saul. He’s worked hard for the last 35 years or so to make some of the best oils and lubes in the business.[/quote]
Indeed!
Ultra Pure products have been shipping with Shires horns for a few years now, and many of the lubricants and oils we use in house in the production and finaling of instruments has also been Ultra Pure. The biggest change is that the future of Ultra Pure will be secured, because it will carry on. That has been the intention behind the Eastman acquisitions.
Indeed!
Ultra Pure products have been shipping with Shires horns for a few years now, and many of the lubricants and oils we use in house in the production and finaling of instruments has also been Ultra Pure. The biggest change is that the future of Ultra Pure will be secured, because it will carry on. That has been the intention behind the Eastman acquisitions.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
Too bad we can’t swipe some used oil off the slide (or valves) and have it analyzed like you can with an internal combustion engine oil and get wear particle analysis and an idea of how much life left in the oil. (Or is there some place?) That’s how one gets a true perspective if your brand X generic oil is protecting as well as say Schaefer’s oil. We just base our brand and frequency on subjective guides.
- Tbarh
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
A bit of topic here; How does the Alessi formula slide oil(cream?)stack up to the competition,Anyway ?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
The Alessi slide stuff was not on par with Yamasnot when I tried it.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
The Alessi/Ultra pure slide stuff Hasn’t replaced my Yamaha stuff for convenience or Trombotine for effectiveness.
Horn Guys has this stuff:
Superslick’s Alpha Synth Trombone Hand Slide Lubricant is a unique formula that is designed to be used sparingly.
Something new or a rebranding/repackaging? Anybody tried it?
Horn Guys has this stuff:
Superslick’s Alpha Synth Trombone Hand Slide Lubricant is a unique formula that is designed to be used sparingly.
Something new or a rebranding/repackaging? Anybody tried it?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
To be honest, I just don't have a reason to move away from Yamaha unless they make the formula worse.
- Tbarh
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]To be honest, I just don't have a reason to move away from Yamaha unless they make the formula worse.[/quote]
I use the Yamaha for most of my slides and it is by far the most versatile.. However ,if You have finicky slides there are alternatives out there..For my strange Holton slide and a too close tolerance modern Conn, the Slide o mix Rapid comfort works better, and my old Conn slides, trombotine. Normal ones loves Yamaha. <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI> Still trying everthing ! <EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
I use the Yamaha for most of my slides and it is by far the most versatile.. However ,if You have finicky slides there are alternatives out there..For my strange Holton slide and a too close tolerance modern Conn, the Slide o mix Rapid comfort works better, and my old Conn slides, trombotine. Normal ones loves Yamaha. <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI> Still trying everthing ! <EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
- Tbarh
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]The Alessi/Ultra pure slide stuff Hasn’t replaced my Yamaha stuff for convenience or Trombotine for effectiveness.
Horn Guys has this stuff:
Superslick’s Alpha Synth Trombone Hand Slide Lubricant is a unique formula that is designed to be used sparingly.
Something new or a rebranding/repackaging? Anybody tried it?[/quote]
The Alpha Synth works better than everything Else for a short time.. Then it gunk up in the inners of the outers (at least Thats What i suspects happens).. If You test it ,be sure to use half of What You think is way to little..<EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>
Horn Guys has this stuff:
Superslick’s Alpha Synth Trombone Hand Slide Lubricant is a unique formula that is designed to be used sparingly.
Something new or a rebranding/repackaging? Anybody tried it?[/quote]
The Alpha Synth works better than everything Else for a short time.. Then it gunk up in the inners of the outers (at least Thats What i suspects happens).. If You test it ,be sure to use half of What You think is way to little..<EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>