Funnel shaped tenor and bass mouthpieces

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LastTrombone50BGL
Posts: 2
Joined: Jan 29, 2024

by LastTrombone50BGL »

Good afternoon,

I'm looking for both funnel shaped cup tenor and bass trombone mouthpieces(stock). Does anyone have any specific recommendations? If possible, are there any funnel shaped mouthpieces similar in cup depth to the 1G or 2G?

I found a mouthpiece called the JP 614 and have been using it on my tenor trombone (bach 42) ever since I got it and I really like the way it plays, I would just like it just a *tiny bit shallower. It also happens to work really well with my bass trombone, so I would like something deeper, or something as deep as the 1G I currently use on my bass trombone.

I am aware of custom mpc makers, and I will go to them if no stock options are available. I am just curious about any stock ones that might be hiding in plain sight from me.

Please let me know!!

Best,

Jaden C.
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BGuttman
Posts: 7368
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by BGuttman »

Somebody made something called a "Helleberg trombone mouthpiece". Helleberg tuba mouthpieces are more-or-less conical.

I believe the Hecht model bass trombone mouthpiece is around 1G sized and more-or-less conical.
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

How conical, and what's your goal?

My regular mouthpieces are less cup shaped than most. I can make a conical cup if you want that. They sound pretty much french horn-like. I haven't tried making one that deep so I don't know the overall effect.
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jonathanharker
Posts: 139
Joined: Aug 14, 2022

by jonathanharker »

[quote="LastTrombone50BGL"]I'm looking for both funnel shaped cup tenor and bass trombone mouthpieces(stock). Does anyone have any specific recommendations? If possible, are there any funnel shaped mouthpieces similar in cup depth to the 1G or 2G?[/quote]

Not sure if it's stock exactly, but the Minick L more or less meets your definition I think. Steve Ferguson makes copies, including Jeff Reynold's favourite Minick L, which I've been playing for years. There's also the LS for those with a Schilke 60 sized face.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://hornguys.com/products/ferguson- ... mouthpiece">https://hornguys.com/products/ferguson-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
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Burgerbob
Posts: 6327
Joined: Apr 23, 2018

by Burgerbob »

I'd ask yourself if you really want funnel shaped mouthpieces. What's this JP614? A Parke?
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stewbones43
Posts: 333
Joined: Oct 25, 2018

by stewbones43 »

The JP614 is a bass trombone mouthpiece made for John Packer and is a similar design to the Denis Wick pieces.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://johnpacker.co.uk/products/john- ... 279d&_ss=c">https://johnpacker.co.uk/products/john-packer-jp614-bass-trombone-mouthpiece?_pos=6&_fid=c1b80279d&_ss=c</LINK_TEXT>

I have no experience with them but if they work for you, then they are incredible value at £21 ($26.71)

Cheers

Stewbones43
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Burgerbob
Posts: 6327
Joined: Apr 23, 2018

by Burgerbob »

Hmm, I wouldn't assume that's a funnel shaped cup.
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hyperbolica
Posts: 3990
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by hyperbolica »

The Ferguson V (Horn Guys) is on the small side of a 1.5G. It's my favorite non-Elliott mouthpiece.
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OneTon
Posts: 757
Joined: Nov 02, 2021

by OneTon »

Stork has more funnel shaped tenor trombone mouthpieces. I haven’t looked at their bass trombone mouthpieces. They are nice people and the site is pretty good.
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u_2bobone
Posts: 474
Joined: Mar 25, 2018

by u_2bobone »

I accidently bought a "Helleberg 5E" thinking it was appropriate for a bass. Wrong ! It is VERY conical and is in "minty" condition with only insertion marks. I used a similar configuration mouthpiece for 20 years and absolutely loved it ! My 5E can be your 5E !
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Bonearzt
Posts: 833
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Bonearzt »

Marcinkewicz, I believe, are/were conical.

At least my Geo.Roberts 1.5G is pretty straight sided inside....
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jjenkins
Posts: 364
Joined: Apr 22, 2018

by jjenkins »

Warburton mouthpieces. Their two-piece system is conical. Their #2 top is similar to the size you're wanting. Their one-piece models are more cup shaped.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://warburton-usa.com/collections/t ... outhpieces">https://warburton-usa.com/collections/trombone-euphonium-and-baritone-mouthpieces</LINK_TEXT>

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whitbey
Posts: 654
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by whitbey »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]How conical, and what's your goal?

My regular mouthpieces are less cup shaped than most. I can make a conical cup if you want that. They sound pretty much french horn-like. I haven't tried making one that deep so I don't know the overall effect.[/quote]

I used to play a Canadian Brass Heliburg (sp) MP

Doug set me up better. It has been close to 15 years and I still play the first MP Doug sent me. I have others of his for the rest of my horns. None have needed change for years.

I still have a Denis Wick for my F150. Something to buzz as I drive.
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harrisonreed
Posts: 6479
Joined: Aug 17, 2018

by harrisonreed »

<ATTACHMENT filename="Ferguson_V_clear_1024x1024.gif" index="0">[attachment=0]Ferguson_V_clear_1024x1024.gif</ATTACHMENT>

This is not really "funnel" shaped. Or conical. Looks cup shaped to me.

The Ferguson LS is closer -- has a much more gradual shoulder into the throat. But it ain't conical either.
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hyperbolica
Posts: 3990
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by hyperbolica »

[quote="harrisonreed"]Ferguson_V_clear_1024x1024.gif

This is not really "funnel" shaped. Or conical. Looks cup shaped to me.

The Ferguson LS is closer -- has a much more gradual shoulder into the throat. But it ain't conical either.[/quote]

I've owned and played extensively on both the L and the V. The description of the V says "V shaped cup", and there are 2 areas of straight(ish) lines in the cross-section, joined by a round. More than the geometry, these mouthpieces have a distinctly different response from your average Bach 1.5G. The description calls it "more efficient", but to me it's just a brighter sound. I use the V with my Holton 159 to have full command of the range from high to low. It really barks out the bottom and enables high notes without that kazoo wackiness that a lot of big mouthpieces get.

Between the heavier blank and the cup shape (whatever you call it), these sound great, and the V in particular is definitely different from other mouthpieces. The L is like a Bach 1/4 in size and feel, but has a much better sound and response. It's very much like an equivalent DE size, and Doug says his cups have a certain level of conical shape.
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Oslide
Posts: 205
Joined: Apr 03, 2018

by Oslide »

As for "funnel shaped cup tenor ... trombone mouthpieces(stock)", some of the Olds look quite funnel-ly to me.
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

[quote="Oslide"]As for "funnel shaped cup tenor ... trombone mouthpieces(stock)", some of the Olds look quite funnel-ly to me.[/quote]

Olds mouthpieces are indeed a bit more "funnel-ly" than most. But they only work with Olds trombones with their differently-tapered mouthpiece receivers. (And most would not be popular with many "modern" trombonists.) :weep:
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Oslide
Posts: 205
Joined: Apr 03, 2018

by Oslide »

You're right there. But they're easy to get and with a bit plumber's tape one can make them fit for a test - only to wonder afterwards whether the effects found are due to the V-shape or the particular throat and backbore.
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PSJ
Posts: 30
Joined: Mar 29, 2018

by PSJ »

I played Marcinkiewcz mouthpieces for years and I think they would be the closest to a more funnel type mouthpiece.
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

[quote="Oslide"]You're right there. But they're easy to get and with a bit plumber's tape one can make them fit for a test - only to wonder afterwards whether the effects found are due to the V-shape or the particular throat and backbore.[/quote]

I'm not really fond of most Olds mouthpieces, funnel-shaped or not. Especially the small-bore models: Throats are typically too small for my taste; rims are too small for my chops.

The large-bore Olds 20 works O.K. with my Olds O-25 (0.554" bore). (The supplied Olds 15 is much too small for that trombone.)

I do like the rather funnel-shaped Olds G (~27.25mm Cup I.D.; 7.40" throat) which I believe was developed for George Roberts. Amazingly big sound when paired with the O-25!
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CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1460
Joined: May 10, 2018

by CalgaryTbone »

The various Jay Friedman mouthpieces (Parks, Hammond, Brassark) feature cups that are more V shaped, according to Jay's own description of them.

Jim Scott
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CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1460
Joined: May 10, 2018

by CalgaryTbone »

That is Parke, not Parks. I hate autocorrect!

JS
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dukesboneman
Posts: 935
Joined: Apr 02, 2018

by dukesboneman »

Jettone used to make a Symphony D model

It had a 12C-ish sized rim, The cup went straight down then into a very pronounced V.

Very deep cup.

Also I believe the Conn 3 was a V shaped cup
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

[quote="dukesboneman"]Also I believe the Conn 3 was a V shaped cup[/quote]

You're right - the Conn 3 is definitely more funnel-shaped than its cousin the Conn 2.

Also rather V-shaped: Conn Connstellation 5C-N and Connstellation "Remington" (small shank),

as well as the classic large-shank "Remington" that was supplied with "vintage" Conn 88H trombones.
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mazman
Posts: 41
Joined: Jul 05, 2023

by mazman »

I was on a similar quest a while back and eventually gave up. I wanted a tenor piece that looked like it belonged on a flugelhorn.
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u_220FifthSstreet
Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 08, 2024

by u_220FifthSstreet »

I found a Ludwig tenor bugle mouthpiece made for G piston bugle. It is conical, almost like a Frenchhorn or a Helleberg tuba M.P. It fits the receiver on my King 2B Liberty and my little faithful Olds Ambassador. I believe that Holton made the b ugles for the Ludwig Drum Company.
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bassclef
Posts: 337
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by bassclef »

I have a couple Curry tenor and bass mouthpieces. Their cups are noticeably move V-shaped than their Greg Black size equivalents when I hold them next to one another and look into the cups.