Rath R9 Hagmann Tubing
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
Hi Everyone!
I recently bought a used R9 with Indy Hagmanns and I noticed that the tubing coming from the Gb valve which is closest to the bell is touching the bell on my horn.
Is that correct or should there be a space between the tubing a bell?
I’m struggling to find any signs of damage or trauma to the bell section so I can’t tell if the horn should be like this. This is my first time owning a R9 so I’m still becoming familiar with the horn.
I’m not sure if it makes any difference but the serial number is in the early 200s.
It’s really hard to get a picture but I tried my best. Any help anyone can provide is appreciated!
I recently bought a used R9 with Indy Hagmanns and I noticed that the tubing coming from the Gb valve which is closest to the bell is touching the bell on my horn.
Is that correct or should there be a space between the tubing a bell?
I’m struggling to find any signs of damage or trauma to the bell section so I can’t tell if the horn should be like this. This is my first time owning a R9 so I’m still becoming familiar with the horn.
I’m not sure if it makes any difference but the serial number is in the early 200s.
It’s really hard to get a picture but I tried my best. Any help anyone can provide is appreciated!
- dwn8ve
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
On the two R9's I've had, neither had the tubing touching the bell there. I think that'd be worth getting checked out by a tech.
- JonTheCadet
- Posts: 72
- Joined: May 28, 2018
Somewhere along the line Rath changed their Hagmann braces for both the F and Gb tubings.
Here's an earlier one where the brace bends backwards like yours. My old valveset in late 800s still used this type of brace.
<ATTACHMENT filename="s55_0196.jpg" index="3">[attachment=3]s55_0196.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
For newer valvesets the braces is S-shaped instead of U-shaped.
<ATTACHMENT filename="cvrathbass_2-768x1024.jpg" index="2">[attachment=2]cvrathbass_2-768x1024.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
Some came without braces even. Here's an earlier, non-modular example:
<ATTACHMENT filename="BassTromRathR9a-1.jpg" index="1">[attachment=1]BassTromRathR9a-1.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
And a newer one also without brace:
<ATTACHMENT filename="54ffb3d03ecb8784bed15be685445009.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]54ffb3d03ecb8784bed15be685445009.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
Might be worth checking out whether the brace is pushing the valve tubing too close to the bell.
Here's an earlier one where the brace bends backwards like yours. My old valveset in late 800s still used this type of brace.
<ATTACHMENT filename="s55_0196.jpg" index="3">
For newer valvesets the braces is S-shaped instead of U-shaped.
<ATTACHMENT filename="cvrathbass_2-768x1024.jpg" index="2">
Some came without braces even. Here's an earlier, non-modular example:
<ATTACHMENT filename="BassTromRathR9a-1.jpg" index="1">
And a newer one also without brace:
<ATTACHMENT filename="54ffb3d03ecb8784bed15be685445009.jpg" index="0">
Might be worth checking out whether the brace is pushing the valve tubing too close to the bell.
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
That's not as it should be. May have been knocked. Is the valve working well ? They are quite fragile. That's why the tubes are heavily braced.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
Chris, Chris and Jon thank you for your posts!
On closer inspection there is a very hidden but poor repair done to the original bell. Looks like the horn was bumped and some tech added solder to a couple of the threads on the bell tenon pin to push it out and clear the Gb tubing which is pushed in. Only reason I noticed it was because I bought a new bell.
*edit.* I was able to remove the solder or it might have been nail polish I was seeing. So that’s not the issue…
I have an excellent tech I can take the horn too and I’m sure it’ll eliminate a ton of tension that’s been cause from the original repair. Just a bummer I have to deal with it and the price I paid for the horn didn’t account for any repairs!
*edit.* I was able to remove the solder or it might have been nail polish I was seeing. So that’s not the issue…
I have an excellent tech I can take the horn too and I’m sure it’ll eliminate a ton of tension that’s been cause from the original repair. Just a bummer I have to deal with it and the price I paid for the horn didn’t account for any repairs!
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="blast"]That's not as it should be. May have been knocked. Is the valve working well ? They are quite fragile. That's why the tubes are heavily braced.[/quote]
Valve is working well with no metal on metal sounds happening. I’m hoping the brace is just compressed a smidge and my tech can fix this easily.
Valve is working well with no metal on metal sounds happening. I’m hoping the brace is just compressed a smidge and my tech can fix this easily.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
Alright trombone friends! I think I figured it out. The issue might be the new bell. I think the issue is the main bell brace tenon length.
Original main bell brace tenon is 2.7mm long while the new main bell brace tenon is 2.5mm long.
Photo below of what the gap between the Gb tubing and my original bell look like. It’s a very small gap but it is there.
Does that look correct or is the gap still too small?
The second photo right most tube is the Gb tube.
The help is really appreciated since I’m still unfamiliar with Rath basses!
Original main bell brace tenon is 2.7mm long while the new main bell brace tenon is 2.5mm long.
Photo below of what the gap between the Gb tubing and my original bell look like. It’s a very small gap but it is there.
Does that look correct or is the gap still too small?
The second photo right most tube is the Gb tube.
The help is really appreciated since I’m still unfamiliar with Rath basses!
- JonTheCadet
- Posts: 72
- Joined: May 28, 2018
That looks about right. I'm sure Tim or Mick at Rath will be more than happy to tell you if you were to send them an email.
I don't have my old Hagmann valveset anymore so here's a picture from 5 years ago. Hope it's clear enough as a reference on how much space there should be. The bell (by Thein) has a ever so slightly smaller throat compared to normal.
<ATTACHMENT filename="DSC_0506.JPG" index="0">[attachment=0]DSC_0506.JPG</ATTACHMENT>
I don't have my old Hagmann valveset anymore so here's a picture from 5 years ago. Hope it's clear enough as a reference on how much space there should be. The bell (by Thein) has a ever so slightly smaller throat compared to normal.
<ATTACHMENT filename="DSC_0506.JPG" index="0">
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
To be honest, I cannot see what I am supposed to be looking at. Remember that these are very much hand made horns, even though jigs are used to cope with modularity. They do vary a little. Be very, very careful not to put any stress on the tubes going into the valves...that wrecks them