Date my 88H
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
Hey all,
My horn isn't after a wine and dine, but I am curious to know when it was made. I've had it since 1997, so it must be older than that. I've always assumed it's from the early 1980s, but lately I've been thinking it might be a bit older.
Ordinarily I'd date a horn with the serial number, but this one only has two numbers: 26 on the slide and 47 on the valve. I promise there are no other numbers, unless someone magically stamped them inside a tube.
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
Anyhoo, any info or help is appreciated!
My horn isn't after a wine and dine, but I am curious to know when it was made. I've had it since 1997, so it must be older than that. I've always assumed it's from the early 1980s, but lately I've been thinking it might be a bit older.
Ordinarily I'd date a horn with the serial number, but this one only has two numbers: 26 on the slide and 47 on the valve. I promise there are no other numbers, unless someone magically stamped them inside a tube.
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
Anyhoo, any info or help is appreciated!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Serial number should be on the bell brace to the left of the rotor.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Serial number should be on the bell brace to the left of the rotor.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Maybe even a bit earlier - sometime in the 80's. I seem to remember seeing some horns with that bell engraving late in my school years, and I finished school and started here in Calgary in '81. One of my orchestra colleagues had an 88H like that except Ron Partch had open-wrapped the F attachment and made it detachable with a straight neckpipe available to use with it.
Jim Scott
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Maybe even a bit earlier - sometime in the 80's. I seem to remember seeing some horns with that bell engraving late in my school years, and I finished school and started here in Calgary in '81. One of my orchestra colleagues had an 88H like that except Ron Partch had open-wrapped the F attachment and made it detachable with a straight neckpipe available to use with it.
Jim Scott
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
[quote="harrisonreed"]Serial number should be on the bell brace to the left of the rotor.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Should be, but I promise it isn't...
I've always assumed the valve style placed it earlier. Generally the 90s 88H I have seen had a plainer valve cover.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Should be, but I promise it isn't...
I've always assumed the valve style placed it earlier. Generally the 90s 88H I have seen had a plainer valve cover.
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="246317" time="1719410633" user_id="3642">
Serial number should be on the bell brace to the left of the rotor.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Maybe even a bit earlier - sometime in the 80's. I seem to remember seeing some horns with that bell engraving late in my school years, and I finished school and started here in Calgary in '81. One of my orchestra colleagues had an 88H like that except Ron Partch had open-wrapped the F attachment and made it detachable with a straight neckpipe available to use with it.
Jim Scott
</QUOTE>
I suspect the lack of serial number makes it an early run in a new style. But then the non-matching halves maybe a factory pick. I suspect I'll never know. Maybe we should all write little log books to live with our horns?!
Serial number should be on the bell brace to the left of the rotor.
I believe the Artist Symphony version was early 90's.[/quote]
Maybe even a bit earlier - sometime in the 80's. I seem to remember seeing some horns with that bell engraving late in my school years, and I finished school and started here in Calgary in '81. One of my orchestra colleagues had an 88H like that except Ron Partch had open-wrapped the F attachment and made it detachable with a straight neckpipe available to use with it.
Jim Scott
</QUOTE>
I suspect the lack of serial number makes it an early run in a new style. But then the non-matching halves maybe a factory pick. I suspect I'll never know. Maybe we should all write little log books to live with our horns?!
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Maybe someone who was a Per Brevig student in the early 80's (even late 70's?) would remember this better. I didn't study with him, but he coached a trombone quartet I played in. I think he had an 88H just like that horn, that was always in the room when he coached us. He had a medium bore model that he had used for years, but I think he started using an 88H at least some of the time around the late 70's/early 80's. The Elkhart horns were getting to be harder to find, and after a few years of bad press for the bells labeled "Abeline", Conn started to do a bit better with their quality control. The new bell decorations might have been a choice to separate them from the Abeline reputation.
I'm also remembering trying out some 74H's (.522 bore) to pick out a couple for use in a brass band. They had this engraving, and that would have been before I left NYC in 1981 to start my job here.
To be honest, I've played some horns with just this exact engraving and most struck me as being quite good. Some of the Abeline bells too. I'm betting this horn is from a period that started sometime between 1978 - 1980.
Jim Scott
I'm also remembering trying out some 74H's (.522 bore) to pick out a couple for use in a brass band. They had this engraving, and that would have been before I left NYC in 1981 to start my job here.
To be honest, I've played some horns with just this exact engraving and most struck me as being quite good. Some of the Abeline bells too. I'm betting this horn is from a period that started sometime between 1978 - 1980.
Jim Scott
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
I'm also remembering trying out some 74H's (.522 bore) to pick out a couple for use in a brass band. They had this engraving, and that would have been before I left NYC in 1981 to start my job here.
To be honest, I've played some horns with just this exact engraving and most struck me as being quite good. Some of the Abeline bells too. I'm betting this horn is from a period that started sometime between 1978 - 1980.
Jim Scott
I have just checked my 74H bell inscription and it is not quite the same as that of the 88H in the pictures. Mine says
C G CONN LTD
Artist
U S A
The word "Artist" is in a cursive script.
The serial number of my 74H dates it to November 1977 (GK77****)
Not sure whether this helps or causes more CONNfusion. :shuffle:
Cheers
Stewbones43
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="mikerspencer"]
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
[/quote]
The metals of the slide and bell never match. I believe they had bronze slide tubes and then switched to yellow brass slide tubes at some point.
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
[/quote]
The metals of the slide and bell never match. I believe they had bronze slide tubes and then switched to yellow brass slide tubes at some point.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Forgive me for the hijack, but your thread title has me wanting to respond, "Well, okay, but it's gonna have to take me out for a nice dinner before I'll blow it." :D
You may now return to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I am pretty sure that bell stamping is from the mid- to late-70's.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="mikerspencer"]Ordinarily I'd date a horn with the serial number, but this one only has two numbers: 26 on the slide and 47 on the valve. I promise there are no other numbers, unless someone magically stamped them inside a tube.[/quote]
Conn has been rather inconsistent about where they have stamped/engraved trombone serial numbers. And sometimes they're a bit hard to locate. I've checked 6 Conn trombones that I could get my hands on. Only the more recent one (not that recent, either, but post-Elkhart) has the S/N on the bell section. The others were on the slide!
Conn has been rather inconsistent about where they have stamped/engraved trombone serial numbers. And sometimes they're a bit hard to locate. I've checked 6 Conn trombones that I could get my hands on. Only the more recent one (not that recent, either, but post-Elkhart) has the S/N on the bell section. The others were on the slide!
- 6H (1967) - Bottom of lower cork barrel
- 71H (1969) - Proximal end of lower outer slide tube
- 79H (1970) - Bottom of lower cork barrel
- 88H (1972) - Bottom of lower cork barrel
- 48H (1972) - Bottom of lower cork barrel
- 88H CL (S/N 1358xx - ??~2003??) - Bell brace below rotor
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="mikerspencer" post_id="246315" time="1719409933" user_id="15388">
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
[/quote]
The metals of the slide and bell never match. I believe they had bronze slide tubes and then switched to yellow brass slide tubes at some point.
</QUOTE>
Possibly. The slide colours match a gold bell horn I saw in the 90s, which is what made me think they were from different variants. Too many colours going on on mine!
I don't think it's a matching slide/bell. The slide is gold brass and the bell rose brass. I'm assuming the grey carpet case is original. I didn't love it as a kid, but I have more style now ;-)
[/quote]
The metals of the slide and bell never match. I believe they had bronze slide tubes and then switched to yellow brass slide tubes at some point.
</QUOTE>
Possibly. The slide colours match a gold bell horn I saw in the 90s, which is what made me think they were from different variants. Too many colours going on on mine!
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
[quote="stewbones43"]<QUOTE>
I'm also remembering trying out some 74H's (.522 bore) to pick out a couple for use in a brass band. They had this engraving, and that would have been before I left NYC in 1981 to start my job here.
To be honest, I've played some horns with just this exact engraving and most struck me as being quite good. Some of the Abeline bells too. I'm betting this horn is from a period that started sometime between 1978 - 1980.
Jim Scott[/quote]
I have just checked my 74H bell inscription and it is not quite the same as that of the 88H in the pictures. Mine says
C G CONN LTD
Artist
U S A
The word "Artist" is in a cursive script.
The serial number of my 74H dates it to November 1977 (GK77****)
Not sure whether this helps or causes more CONNfusion. :shuffle:
Cheers
Stewbones43
</QUOTE>
I always thought they were labelled "artist" or "artist symphony" depending on the size, and hence intended purpose.
Thanks for the info. I've always found it a good example of an 88H, it plays very well!
I'm also remembering trying out some 74H's (.522 bore) to pick out a couple for use in a brass band. They had this engraving, and that would have been before I left NYC in 1981 to start my job here.
To be honest, I've played some horns with just this exact engraving and most struck me as being quite good. Some of the Abeline bells too. I'm betting this horn is from a period that started sometime between 1978 - 1980.
Jim Scott[/quote]
I have just checked my 74H bell inscription and it is not quite the same as that of the 88H in the pictures. Mine says
C G CONN LTD
Artist
U S A
The word "Artist" is in a cursive script.
The serial number of my 74H dates it to November 1977 (GK77****)
Not sure whether this helps or causes more CONNfusion. :shuffle:
Cheers
Stewbones43
</QUOTE>
I always thought they were labelled "artist" or "artist symphony" depending on the size, and hence intended purpose.
Thanks for the info. I've always found it a good example of an 88H, it plays very well!
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
You're right - the smaller bore instruments just say "Artist", and the 8H/88H's said "Artist Symphony". I'm not sure what the Bass trombones from that era had etched on their bells.
JS
JS
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]You're right - the smaller bore instruments just say "Artist", and the 8H/88H's said "Artist Symphony". I'm not sure what the Bass trombones from that era had etched on their bells.
JS[/quote]
Artist BigBoy?
JS[/quote]
Artist BigBoy?
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="mikerspencer"]<QUOTE author="CalgaryTbone" post_id="246657" time="1719676510" user_id="3262">
You're right - the smaller bore instruments just say "Artist", and the 8H/88H's said "Artist Symphony". I'm not sure what the Bass trombones from that era had etched on their bells.
JS[/quote]
Artist BigBoy?
</QUOTE>
Isn't that a Burger chain?
JS
You're right - the smaller bore instruments just say "Artist", and the 8H/88H's said "Artist Symphony". I'm not sure what the Bass trombones from that era had etched on their bells.
JS[/quote]
Artist BigBoy?
</QUOTE>
Isn't that a Burger chain?
JS
- mpiechota
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Jul 05, 2024
Marcus Big Boy was a restaurant chain for sure. I think most closed down though :-)
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="mpiechota"]Marcus Big Boy was a restaurant chain for sure. I think most closed down though :-)[/quote]
I was thinking of "Bob's Big Boy". They were a chain back in the '60's.
JS
PS - I think Conan O'Brian resurrected the memories of that chain, because he used to show the character "Bob" in some comedy bits. There is a striking resemblance between the two.
I was thinking of "Bob's Big Boy". They were a chain back in the '60's.
JS
PS - I think Conan O'Brian resurrected the memories of that chain, because he used to show the character "Bob" in some comedy bits. There is a striking resemblance between the two.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]I was thinking of "Bob's Big Boy". They were a chain back in the '60's.
JS
PS - I think Conan O'Brian resurrected the memories of that chain, because he used to show the character "Bob" in some comedy bits. There is a striking resemblance between the two.[/quote]
JS
PS - I think Conan O'Brian resurrected the memories of that chain, because he used to show the character "Bob" in some comedy bits. There is a striking resemblance between the two.[/quote]
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Big boy still exists. One was operating in Japan, even.