Enlighten me on Shire Bell nomenclature
- etbone
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Feb 13, 2019
I have S.E. Shires bell. ( 2ylwfa6 ) bell ) Obviously, is it a 2 piece bell, light weight, with un-solded bead. Does the F mean, f- attachment? A means annealed? Then, what does the 6 mean. What would be the approximate build time frame? It plays very nice. The complete horn, is similar to the Alessi model, except this horn is all yellow brass, with Rotax valve.
Just curious.
Just curious.
- mcphatty00
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Apr 25, 2022
The terms have gotten intense. I have a 2Y and 2RVE.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
2 = Two piece, standard construction
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)
I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)
I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I think FA stands for "freaking awesome" or "funk adjusted"
- etbone
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Feb 13, 2019
[quote="Matt K"]2 = Two piece, standard construction
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)
I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?[/quote]
1st 3, are obvious, and on the Shires website. F could mean French, but bead looks like, a normal bead. A could mean annealed, which is a heat treatment (I prefer, the term, heat conditioning).
The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list. :idk:
Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx
Y = Yellow brass
LW = Lightweight (lighter than "M" and regular, of course)
I don't know what F, or A6 means. I thought it might be treatment, but those are indicated by a "T" (e.g. 2YLWT8. Maybe F = french bead?[/quote]
1st 3, are obvious, and on the Shires website. F could mean French, but bead looks like, a normal bead. A could mean annealed, which is a heat treatment (I prefer, the term, heat conditioning).
The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list. :idk:
Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx
- ZacharyThornton
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Can probably call Shires and ask. They will love to talk to customers about their horns.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Type 3, 4, and 6 bells actually do exist but they don’t make them; they were never mass produced as far as I know. 6 is an unsoldered, one piece bell (kind of like some Yamaha bells). 3,4 are a special type of construction… I want to say maybe even a three piece bell, but I can’t remember.
I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.
I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.
- Dennis
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="etbone"]
The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list. :idk:
Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx[/quote]
6 would be a one-piece bell with unsoldered bead.
Shires uses a positional description, which is fine, except that some values are implicit.
The first letter designates instrument (S)mall tenor, (T)enor, or (B)ass. "T" may be implicit.
Next comes a Roman number (I, II) describing the bell mandrel. The I mandrel is Conn-ish, and the II mandrel is Bach-ish. "I" may be implicit, particularly when "T" is implicit. I'm not sure if I/II mandrels exist for S bells.
Next comes the bell construction, a number from 1- 8. Odd numbers have soldered beads, even numbers have unsoldered beads. 5 is a one-piece, soldered bell. I don't know if any 6 bells exist.
Next comes the bell material: [G]old, [R]ed, or [Y]ellow brass. Shires makes silver bells, but I don't know how they are designated. Two piece bells (1, 2, 7, 8--3 and 4 are discontinued) may have different metals used for the tail and the flare.
The bell weight is next: XLW, LW, M, H. There may be an implicit standard weight between M and H.
Finally there are the extra secret-sauce treatments. Tx seem to be bell flare treatments, and Ax seem to be annealing treatments.
The 6 is a mystery. According to Shire's website, even numbers are unsoldered beads. However, they don't list 6, in their bell construction list. :idk:
Guess I need to email Shires, and wait for a response. Thx[/quote]
6 would be a one-piece bell with unsoldered bead.
Shires uses a positional description, which is fine, except that some values are implicit.
The first letter designates instrument (S)mall tenor, (T)enor, or (B)ass. "T" may be implicit.
Next comes a Roman number (I, II) describing the bell mandrel. The I mandrel is Conn-ish, and the II mandrel is Bach-ish. "I" may be implicit, particularly when "T" is implicit. I'm not sure if I/II mandrels exist for S bells.
Next comes the bell construction, a number from 1- 8. Odd numbers have soldered beads, even numbers have unsoldered beads. 5 is a one-piece, soldered bell. I don't know if any 6 bells exist.
Next comes the bell material: [G]old, [R]ed, or [Y]ellow brass. Shires makes silver bells, but I don't know how they are designated. Two piece bells (1, 2, 7, 8--3 and 4 are discontinued) may have different metals used for the tail and the flare.
The bell weight is next: XLW, LW, M, H. There may be an implicit standard weight between M and H.
Finally there are the extra secret-sauce treatments. Tx seem to be bell flare treatments, and Ax seem to be annealing treatments.
- Dennis
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]Type 3, 4, and 6 bells actually do exist but they don’t make them; they were never mass produced as far as I know. 6 is an unsoldered, one piece bell (kind of like some Yamaha bells). 3,4 are a special type of construction… I want to say maybe even a three piece bell, but I can’t remember.
I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.[/quote]
There are a few TI-5 bells out of captivity: I own one of them, a TI-5GLW.
I would bet A6 is some kind of annealing treatment, but that’s speculation.[/quote]
There are a few TI-5 bells out of captivity: I own one of them, a TI-5GLW.
- ZacharyThornton
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I played a BII3Y back in the day.
- RJMason
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Jun 05, 2018
Once played a 3GM TB. 2 piece? Something else? Gold brass, medium. Rim wire was bronze instead of steel? Best Shires bell I’ve played so far.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Ah, I knew I looked this up, this is what I found last year from what Ben Griffin reported:
<LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=12941&hilit=Type+3#p12941">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=12941&hilit=Type+3#p12941</LINK_TEXT>
[quote="ben_griffin"]Type 3 bells were a step along the path to the type 7 bells (that are now our most popular). The type 3 is a two piece bell (stem and flare) with a seamed flare. This allowed us to distribute the thickness of metal a particular way and was a common thing in brass manufacture until about the last 80/90 or so years. Your is of this construction, with a soldered beadwire in standard weight red brass.[/quote]
<LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=12941&hilit=Type+3#p12941">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=12941&hilit=Type+3#p12941</LINK_TEXT>
[quote="ben_griffin"]Type 3 bells were a step along the path to the type 7 bells (that are now our most popular). The type 3 is a two piece bell (stem and flare) with a seamed flare. This allowed us to distribute the thickness of metal a particular way and was a common thing in brass manufacture until about the last 80/90 or so years. Your is of this construction, with a soldered beadwire in standard weight red brass.[/quote]
- etbone
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Feb 13, 2019
From SE Shires..... mystery solved.
SE Shires Info
From:
<EMAIL email="info@seshires.com">info@seshires.com</EMAIL>
To:
<EMAIL email="rmaines@sbcglobal.net">rmaines@sbcglobal.net</EMAIL>
Wed, Jul 3 at 8:13 AM
Hi Randall,
Thanks so much for reaching out! It looks like your bell is a traditional two-piece yellow lightweight bell with a French beadwire and special annealing treatment. If you’re looking for the year of production, we’d just need the serial number of your horn which could be found on the slide receiver of your horn.
All the best,
SE Shires Info
From:
<EMAIL email="info@seshires.com">info@seshires.com</EMAIL>
To:
<EMAIL email="rmaines@sbcglobal.net">rmaines@sbcglobal.net</EMAIL>
Wed, Jul 3 at 8:13 AM
Hi Randall,
Thanks so much for reaching out! It looks like your bell is a traditional two-piece yellow lightweight bell with a French beadwire and special annealing treatment. If you’re looking for the year of production, we’d just need the serial number of your horn which could be found on the slide receiver of your horn.
All the best,
- etbone
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Feb 13, 2019
[quote="Matt K"]Aha called it![/quote]
Well, you did miss, the bell type. It is a two piece bell. (It's ok, others missed it, also.)
Well, you did miss, the bell type. It is a two piece bell. (It's ok, others missed it, also.)
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Yeah, Matt, what do you know??? Booooooo
(I hope the irony and sarcasm is apparent here, lol! I feel like Matt basically nailed it)
:idk:
(I hope the irony and sarcasm is apparent here, lol! I feel like Matt basically nailed it)
:idk:
- heldenbone
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Aug 21, 2018
It's round and has bark. It must be a tree.
It feels like a moving rope. It's a snake.
It's flat and rough and broad. I tell you it's a wall.
Three blind men describing an elephant, until it *trumpets*.
tee hee
It feels like a moving rope. It's a snake.
It's flat and rough and broad. I tell you it's a wall.
Three blind men describing an elephant, until it *trumpets*.
tee hee