Surprise removable F trigger on bass trombone

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2024-07-14 7:40 p.m.

I'm glad this happened at a rehearsal.

<ATTACHMENT filename="20240714_170611.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~20240714_170611.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

atopper333 · by **atopper333** » 2024-07-14 8:28 p.m.

Hmm, that doesn’t help things much…surprises are good…just not like that!

Makes me think about how to do a temp fix on something like that if it was go time…maybe some 3M double sided body tape? Might work in a pinch and would be relatively easy to remove to have it fixed…

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2024-07-14 8:37 p.m.

[quote="atopper333"]Makes me think about how to do a temp fix on something like that[/quote]

Unhook the other lever from the D valve, and rig it to the F valve with some dental floss? Tie the D rotor in place.

Borrow a trombonist from the audience, and have them hold the rotor in place with their fingers, turning it as needed.

I know that superglue is dangerous for a repair tech. But if they know ahead of time, can they handle it?

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2024-07-14 8:44 p.m.

No, no. No time to set glue or such.

Fortunately, the valve even when released from spring pressure seemed content to sit in open position, so I was able to basically play valveless.

That's not a normal failure, I would think.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-07-14 9:30 p.m.

Very typical eterna problem.

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2024-07-14 9:44 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Very typical eterna problem.[/quote]

Ah, I was wondering.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-07-14 10:13 p.m.

I'll elaborate now that I'm home, I had a friend with a 1662 in grad school. His came off in the middle of a performance in studio class! I had to lend him my horn for the rest of it. I think it was the 3rd or 4th time it had happened to him.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2024-07-14 10:33 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Very typical eterna problem.[/quote]
Yup; seen it more than once.

MahlerMusic · 2024-07-17 12:22 p.m.

Same happened to me with my Eterna. The biggest problem is that the horn is harder to hold with the trigger being broken which is part of the problem. You soon realize how much pressure you place on the trigger to just hold the horn up. I was glad at the time that the Orchestra stuff I was playing did not dig into the trigger range.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... E4c3ZFb1pB">https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPPszFKpcw9oHEazY3q3w2v5mmnTxjgpTaw8FjQOUBo41pPEq0OnO806Mw-VQDEKw/photo/AF1QipPlL2Ymy59kb8ZMvkDTOb57_TraMYaOp-fBx6Po?key=WGJkWTMwMDlDNGdRLThNZmFqM2V0Z1E4c3ZFb1pB</LINK_TEXT>

If you zoom in on the trigger you can see the repair that was done.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2024-07-17 2:05 p.m.

Happened to me -twice. Once with The Kanstul once with The Yamaha. Must have a strong left thumb!. Repaired the Kanstul between rehearsal and performance using two really small zip ties. Played the yamaha without any valve... Doug

sungfw · by **sungfw** » 2024-07-17 4:56 p.m.

[quote="AtomicClock"]I know that superglue is dangerous for a repair tech. But if they know ahead of time, can they handle it?[/quote]

:???: SMH.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2024-07-17 10:51 p.m.

Design flaw. Bach and Conn have a flange on the saddle that gives more contact area for the solder. Getzen and Kanstul do not.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-07-18 11:52 a.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]Design flaw. Bach and Conn have a flange on the saddle that gives more contact area for the solder. Getzen and Kanstul do not.[/quote] I think in the last years they may have fixed at least some of them. My 1570 has the usual flange, while my 1588 has the regular flange but with a larger piece attached to the bottom, and it looks like a brazed joint, not soldered. I'll see if I can get some pictures.

brassmedic · 2024-07-19 5:05 a.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="248163" time="1721271117" user_id="4102">
Design flaw. Bach and Conn have a flange on the saddle that gives more contact area for the solder. Getzen and Kanstul do not.[/quote] I think in the last years they may have fixed at least some of them. My 1570 has the usual flange, while my 1588 has the regular flange but with a larger piece attached to the bottom, and it looks like a brazed joint, not soldered. I'll see if I can get some pictures.
</QUOTE>
Not sure what you mean by "usual flange". I repaired several Kanstul trombones that had no flange at all.

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2024-07-19 8:04 a.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]Design flaw. Bach and Conn have a flange on the saddle that gives more contact area for the solder. Getzen and Kanstul do not.[/quote]

I had the lever saddle pop off on my 1971 vintage 42B. I had owned it several decades when it happened, can't remember exactly when, but it's been a couple decades since the repair and it's fine. So far.

I have added a makeshift brace to make holding easier, so possibly there is less stress on it.

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2024-07-21 7:10 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]Happened to me -twice. Once with The Kanstul once with The Yamaha. Must have a strong left thumb!. Repaired the Kanstul between rehearsal and performance using two really small zip ties. Played the yamaha without any valve... Doug[/quote]

Very surprised to hear that about a Yamaha. All the Yamahas I have worked with had saddles that were brazed to the brace. Maybe your Yamaha was older? Or……you do have exceptional thumb strength and should consider a career in thumb wrestling? LOL!

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-07-22 10:23 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]Not sure what you mean by "usual flange". I repaired several Kanstul trombones that had no flange at all.[/quote] I guess I used the wrong word. Usual fitting without a flange. It does look like they brazed some sort of flange onto the bottom of the regular fitting for my 1588, while the 1570 does not have one. It was made quite a bit earlier than the other.

Of course, the lever itself is only soldered together, so that can break too... as I found out on the 1570. Now if only they had kept using real minibal linkages and not gone to generic.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2024-07-23 12:05 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="248255" time="1721379906" user_id="4102">Not sure what you mean by "usual flange". I repaired several Kanstul trombones that had no flange at all.[/quote] I guess I used the wrong word. Usual fitting without a flange. It does look like they brazed some sort of flange onto the bottom of the regular fitting for my 1588, while the 1570 does not have one. It was made quite a bit earlier than the other.

</QUOTE>

Are you sure that wasn't modified after the fact? I see a spot of solder that wasn't completely buffed off, like that saddle has been reattached.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-07-23 1:28 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]Are you sure that wasn't modified after the fact? I see a spot of solder that wasn't completely buffed off, like that saddle has been reattached.[/quote] I got it new, and was there when Davin at Dillon Music took it out of the box. It definitely came that way, unless Kanstul did some mods to it before shipping. Neither of my Kanstuls had perfect fit and finish, though they were definitely better than my first Bach.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2024-07-23 4:05 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="248570" time="1721750737" user_id="4102">Are you sure that wasn't modified after the fact? I see a spot of solder that wasn't completely buffed off, like that saddle has been reattached.[/quote] I got it new, and was there when Davin at Dillon Music took it out of the box. It definitely came that way, unless Kanstul did some mods to it before shipping. Neither of my Kanstuls had perfect fit and finish, though they were definitely better than my first Bach.
</QUOTE>
Well it's good that they remedied that design flaw, then.

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Surprise removable F trigger on bass trombone