Germans, we all love them but...
- BillO
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
So...
Why do German instrument makers put rotary valves on trumpets and piston valves on horns? :???:
It seems it's not a German instrument unless it has a whole lot of extra linkages that the rest of the known universe has found a way to avoid.
??? :mrgreen:
Why do German instrument makers put rotary valves on trumpets and piston valves on horns? :???:
It seems it's not a German instrument unless it has a whole lot of extra linkages that the rest of the known universe has found a way to avoid.
??? :mrgreen:
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
So that you can use Klappen keys in a configuration that makes sense. The rotary valves are just a means to get at the cheat codes in an ergonomic manner.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I thought that it was primarily the Viennese that use the Pumpenvalve horns. :idk: They are Austrian, not German.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn
The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn
The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
Rotary trumpets sound awesome
- musicofnote
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Jun 03, 2022
[quote="Posaunus"]I thought that it was primarily the Viennese that use the Pumpenvalve horns. :idk: They are Austrian, not German.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn
The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.[/quote]
Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".
(Googel Translate ist Dein Freund)
https://www.mdw.ac.at/iwk/wiener-horn/
https://www.brasstacks.de/wiener-ventile.html
https://www.jm-gmbh.de/drehventile/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn
The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.[/quote]
Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".
(Googel Translate ist Dein Freund)
https://www.mdw.ac.at/iwk/wiener-horn/
https://www.brasstacks.de/wiener-ventile.html
https://www.jm-gmbh.de/drehventile/
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="musicofnote"]Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".[/quote]
Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.
Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.
- musicofnote
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Jun 03, 2022
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="musicofnote" post_id="249719" time="1722752521" user_id="15257">
Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".[/quote]
Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.
</QUOTE>
Das ist genau das, was ich geschrieben hatte:
"In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil"
Allerdings ist das eher typisch für Wien, nicht ganz Österreich. Zum Beispiel, in Salzburg und Innsbruck und anderswo, spielen die Waldhornisten/-innen auf handelsüblichen Drehventilinstrumenten, meistens von Alexander.
https://www.landestheater.at/orchester/
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mozarteumorchester.at/orche ... ker-innen/">https://www.mozarteumorchester.at/orchester/musiker-innen/</LINK_TEXT>
https://camerata.at/de/musikerinnen
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.bruckner-orchester.at/de/or ... en-musiker">https://www.bruckner-orchester.at/de/orchester/musikerinnen-musiker</LINK_TEXT>
Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".[/quote]
Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.
</QUOTE>
Das ist genau das, was ich geschrieben hatte:
"In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil"
Allerdings ist das eher typisch für Wien, nicht ganz Österreich. Zum Beispiel, in Salzburg und Innsbruck und anderswo, spielen die Waldhornisten/-innen auf handelsüblichen Drehventilinstrumenten, meistens von Alexander.
https://www.landestheater.at/orchester/
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mozarteumorchester.at/orche ... ker-innen/">https://www.mozarteumorchester.at/orchester/musiker-innen/</LINK_TEXT>
https://camerata.at/de/musikerinnen
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.bruckner-orchester.at/de/or ... en-musiker">https://www.bruckner-orchester.at/de/orchester/musikerinnen-musiker</LINK_TEXT>
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Relative to BillO's original post:
I know that rotary valve trumpets are ubiquitous in Germany (and common elsewhere these days). Now often found in American orchestras when playing some literature.
But apparently Pumpenvalve horns are used almost exclusively in and around Vienna (Austria), not in Germany.
I know that rotary valve trumpets are ubiquitous in Germany (and common elsewhere these days). Now often found in American orchestras when playing some literature.
But apparently Pumpenvalve horns are used almost exclusively in and around Vienna (Austria), not in Germany.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="BillO"]My bad, Austria it is...[/quote]
And really particularly specifically Vienna, because tradition. It's more than just the valves though. They have a distinctly different bore profile more akin to that of a 19th-century natural horn. They also still use crooks inserted between the mouthpiece and instruments like on a natural horn and are always single horns. It's really a whole different concept of the instrument.
They also have different oboes than anywhere else.
And really particularly specifically Vienna, because tradition. It's more than just the valves though. They have a distinctly different bore profile more akin to that of a 19th-century natural horn. They also still use crooks inserted between the mouthpiece and instruments like on a natural horn and are always single horns. It's really a whole different concept of the instrument.
They also have different oboes than anywhere else.
- Nomsis
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Feb 02, 2022
Rotary valves are cool, they often don't need to be lubed for weeks of regular usage and they usually have a short throw and good action. Piston valves need to be lubed much more. I also really like the sound of rotary trumpets.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]And really particularly specifically Vienna, because tradition. It's more than just the valves though. They have a distinctly different bore profile more akin to that of a 19th-century natural horn. They also still use crooks inserted between the mouthpiece and instruments like on a natural horn and are always single horns. It's really a whole different concept of the instrument.[/quote]
From what I've seen, the mouthpiece is also different - a very open throat, almost (but not quite) to the point of not really having a venturi.
From what I've seen, the mouthpiece is also different - a very open throat, almost (but not quite) to the point of not really having a venturi.