What Would You Pick in my Situation?

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2024-09-27 5:09 p.m.

I'm retirement age but still working. Retirement will happen before very long, and I'll have time and energy to play again (or at least I hope I will). I would get out there with the local trombone choir again at the very least.

For now I play to keep my chops functional and for my own enjoyment. I want to round out my stable because I feel it's missing something.

My current horns are:

Bach 42A

Bach 50A3

Bach LT16M

Yamaha YSL-891Z

Yamaha YSL-684G

I also want a good versatile horn.

The Yamaha 684 is the most versatile on the list, but with its .525" bore and 8.5" bell, it leans a little more symphonic in sound.

My thoughts are to acquire a King 3BF, or a Bach 36B that I could play with the LT16 slide. That's the category I want to fill.

I imagine many of you would go with the 3BF, but would still like to see what people think.

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2024-09-27 5:26 p.m.

[quote="LetItSlide"]a Bach 36B that I could play with the LT16M slide[/quote]

Having tried it, this combo isn't a winner. Mainly, it's quite uncomfortable because the narrow slide sticks the trigger in your face, but it also doesn't really turn the 36 into something convincingly smaller and faster... just a bit worse, and slightly less different than you might have imagined. Don't get me wrong - a good 36B (or LT36B(G)) is great.

YMM, of course, V

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-09-27 5:32 p.m.

3B/F is a good choice.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-09-27 5:33 p.m.

King 3B-F is a great choice to fill in the gaps. Or a Bach 36B. If you have a big neck, like I do, The 36B may be a better choice.

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2024-09-27 6:02 p.m.

Echoing the above: Try a 3BF if you like it go with that. If you end up being like me and prefer the Bach or Yamaha sound to the King then be on the lookout for a 36. You have a couple f attachment horns so maybe even a straight 36.

I just played my Bach 8 slide on my 36BG bell. Pulled the tuning slide way out. Sounded like a 36, but a lot more zippy. Trigger touches your face. Can’t say it was a terrible sound, some things were actually prettt cool, but there was no synergy between bell and slide. Small bore Bach character popped out in some spots and then quickly back to 36 symphonic. Kind of weird. Wouldn’t recommend unless you were into the (often uphill) journey of experimentation.

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2024-09-27 6:25 p.m.

I don't want the trigger in my face. Thanks for the heads-up on that, ithinknot and RJMason.

I would enjoy a straight 36, I'm sure, it's just not the gap I'm looking to fill at the moment. Not quite versatile enough without the F attachment.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-09-27 7:10 p.m.

Based on what you have, I'd either get something on the. Small side of 500 or the small side of 525, based on what would get used more. You've got 508 pretty well covered. 78h/32h or 24h/Bach 6 would be my choices.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-09-27 7:11 p.m.

A 36B would be nice if you didn't have all those other horns... but you do.

I love my 36B but I never end up using it.

walldaja · by **walldaja** » 2024-09-27 7:51 p.m.

A King 607F is a good start as well.

EZSlider · by **EZSlider** » 2024-09-27 8:52 p.m.

Add an F(or G :D )attachment to your 891!

:good:

EZ

chouston3 · by **chouston3** » 2024-09-27 9:14 p.m.

I have an 891z and one of my directors wants me to get a horn with an f-attachment. I don't feel like I need one. Is it economical to add an f-attachment to an 891z or would it be cheaper to pick up a King 3b/f

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-09-27 9:20 p.m.

Getting custom work done always costs more than buying something already set up used.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2024-09-28 1:53 a.m.

I have no idea how it plays, but Kühnl & Hoyer makes a .512 bore Bart van Lier model with an F-attachment. That might be an interesting option.

MrHCinDE · by **MrHCinDE** » 2024-09-28 2:14 a.m.

I’d also try a 3B/F or 3B+/F but perhaps an Olds Recording Bb/F or a Conn 79h would also be worth a look.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2024-09-28 12:17 p.m.

[quote="MrHCinDE"]I’d also try a 3B/F or 3B+/F but perhaps an Olds Recording Bb/F or a Conn 79h would also be worth a look.[/quote]

:good:

JLivi · by **JLivi** » 2024-09-28 1:32 p.m.

[quote="MrHCinDE"]I’d also try a 3B/F or 3B+/F but perhaps an Olds Recording Bb/F or a Conn 79h would also be worth a look.[/quote]
This is exactly what I came here to recommend. It sounds like you would want something like a 3bf, which can be incredibly versatile depending on what mouthpiece you put in it. In my experience you can go as small as a 12c or as big as a 5g and the 3bf can handle it.

Otherwise a medium bore with an 8" bell sounds up your alley too, 79h or a 3b+. But I would definitely start with a 3bf since they're easier to find, and usually a bit cheaper.

But in all honesty, if I had your collection, I'd be fairly happy with everything. If I got another horn I would want to get rid of at least one horn to make way for the new one. But as you can see by my signature I also have quite the stable, with not a lot of diversity.

Also, congrats on the eventual retirement!

Dennis · by **Dennis** » 2024-09-28 7:34 p.m.

I'd say that the 36B is probably going to closely duplicate your Yamaha 684. The 36 was designed by Bach as an orchestral tenor, and they play like it. I have one, and if I could only have one horn it (or something like it, like your 684G) is what I would choose.

I think of the 36B as smaller big horn, unlike something like a 3B+ (or to a degree, even the 3B) which is a big small horn. It's a subtle distinction, but there it is.

Looking at your stable, I don't see any holes in it. I don't see a lot of duplication, except for the 891Z and the LT16M. For me, anything I'd use one for I'd also happily use the other for. So maybe the small bore (.500 and under?) niche is open? I guess if I felt like I really needed a small bore, I'd pick the 891Z or LT16M to go away in favor of something like a Bach (LT8 or LT12), a King (2B or 2B+), or a Conn (6H or 48H or 4H or 100H). (Or the Shires or Edwards equivalents, of course.)

My current stable consists of a King 3B (valve and slide), a 36B, a Shires Custom large bore, a Bach 50T3G, and a Shires hybrid bass (Q series valves/slide, Custom bell and tuning slide). The Bach bass needs to go to someone who will play it, but I have some great memories tied up in that horn and letting it go is tougher than I thought it would/should be. The King should probably go to someone who will play it, too.

Finally, congratulations on the pending retirement.

tbdana · by **tbdana** » 2024-09-28 8:57 p.m.

What problem are you trying to solve? What "versatility" do you need that your current stable doesn't give you? What are you going to do with this horn that you can't do with any of the others you have? Where would you play this new horn that you can't play with one of the five that you already have?

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2024-09-28 9:35 p.m.

Someone is grilling me pretty hard about simply wanting a smaller bore trombone with an F attachment. :shuffle:

Enelson · by **Enelson** » 2024-09-29 4:47 a.m.

Hi Bob,

I have never owned a 3BF, but have played on a late 70’s 3B Silversonic since 1982 and a Bach 36B since 1978. Until 2015 these were the only 2 horns I owned. I agree with a lot of the above comments, especially regarding the flexibility of a 36B if you use different mouthpieces.

I also have the same experience as Doug - now that I have been playing very nice .547 bore horns and also have several small bore horns, I don’t choose the 36B very often even though I enjoy playing it.

Having only played a 3B SS and a 36B for many years, I don’t think they are comparable sound wise even with varying mouthpieces cup depths. They are both great, but don’t sound or feel the same. Therefore, I think you should base your final decision on an F-attachment horn that gives you the sound you are missing.

Since I’m inclined to believe that mixing a 36B bell with a LT16M slide will not be a great match, a 3BF will give you a horn that can do lots, but lean towards a commercial sound. (Please note that I am not at all saying you can’t play in a brass quintet or an orchestra with a 3BF - Just making a generalized statement. Not surprisingly, the .525 36B has a rounder sound to it, regardless what mouthpiece you use.)

Good luck on your hunt!

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2025-05-05 10:48 p.m.

I’ve ditched the idea of trying a smaller slide on a Bach 36. What’s more, I don’t want another .525 horn. I’m getting into Kings.

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2025-05-06 1:47 a.m.

[quote="LetItSlide"]I’ve ditched the idea of trying a smaller slide on a Bach 36. What’s more, I don’t want another .525 horn. I’m getting into Kings.[/quote]

Good move. You’ll have fun on a 3B coming from the 891.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2025-05-06 11:32 a.m.

At 70, I’m beginning to wonder if I’m trying to be effective on too many different horns (6, incl alto, 4 .485-.547 tenors, bass). I don’t think another horn (there is an 88H and a 3B/F for sale locally) is the answer.

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2025-05-06 11:58 a.m.

[quote="RJMason"]<QUOTE author="LetItSlide" post_id="275079" time="1746499686" user_id="15661">
I’ve ditched the idea of trying a smaller slide on a Bach 36. What’s more, I don’t want another .525 horn. I’m getting into Kings.[/quote]
Good move. You’ll have fun on a 3B coming from the 891.
</QUOTE>
The fun has begun. The two horns are very different experiences.

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2025-05-06 12:06 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]At 70, I’m beginning to wonder if I’m trying to be effective on too many different horns (6, incl alto, 4 .485-.547 tenors, bass). I don’t think another horn (there is an 88H and a 3B/F for sale locally) is the answer.[/quote]
I say get whichever horns you feel like getting. Your reasons are your own, no one else has to approve.

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What Would You Pick in my Situation?