What is the Strangest mouthpiece size combination that worked for you

SamBTbrn · by **SamBTbrn** » 2024-10-22 4:58 p.m.

Recently I had a Greg black mouthpiece custom made, which the guys at the shop must have been thinking.... But Why?

But for me it just worked incredibly well and sounds fantastic on the trombone I had it made for.

It was a 4g/5g rim/cup medium weight with a small shank.

What is the strangest mouthpiece you've had made that just worked or maybe failed horribly?

muschem · by **muschem** » 2024-10-22 5:12 p.m.

The rim profile from the Griego GP6 (thin and super round) scaled down slightly to 27.7mm ID, and paired with cups from Hammond's 10-series for large tenor all the way down to alto. Definitely a strange combination, which works surprisingly well for me.

trombonedemon · by **trombonedemon** » 2024-10-23 2:21 p.m.

The size in my profile Greg Black thought was an interesting combo. Although once I've played the 29.5 mm, my face didn't want any other size. If the backbore was any smaller my embouchure would come out of the mouthpiece cause of back pressure.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2024-10-23 3:43 p.m.

I have an LB114/LB D/D3 that actually works really well. I bought it so I could keep my bass chops up on a small horn when I was living in an apartment and had to use a practice emute but if I'm doing a ton of bass stuff I'll pop that in no problem and do a gig on it.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-10-23 4:56 p.m.

I find if it's strange, it really doesn't work that well. The "strangest" that actually worked for me was a Schilke 52e2. It's not all that strange. For smaller tenors, I use a DE 104C2, which might sound more like a plate than a bowl, but I've used it on alto and sub 500 bore tenor.

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2024-10-23 6:13 p.m.

Honestly, my Warburton lead trombone mouthpiece is probably the strangest one I have when comparing to "normal" mouthpieces for that role. It has a 4G-sized rim, but a very shallow cup. I use it for most small bore work (not just lead), alto trombone, and bass trumpet, and it is very good at all of them.

HornboneandVocals · by **HornboneandVocals** » 2024-10-24 12:53 a.m.

I mean a 3g rim with a super shallow cup and small backbore… on an 88hcl. Recently used it as 2nd bone playing Mozart requiem and some jazz lead work. Sounded appropriate in both occasions.

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2024-10-24 6:21 p.m.

When I was coming up in the Musical world, a Very good Bass Trombonist in town had to double once and a while on tenor. He played a Conn 78H with a Bach 1 1/2 G rim and a 6 1/2AL cup.

Worked for him

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2024-10-24 9:35 p.m.

[quote="dukesboneman"]When I was coming up in the Musical world, a Very good Bass Trombonist in town had to double once and a while on tenor. He played a Conn 78H with a Bach 1 1/2 G rim and a 6 1/2AL cup.

Worked for him[/quote]

Now Doug Elliott will do similar things for you, all within his coordinated mouthpiece system.

Pick the Shank that matches the trombone,

the Cup that matches the trombone and the literature/style, and

the Rim that matches your embouchure.

It's a great idea, executed superbly.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2024-10-26 7:56 a.m.

Indeed, that's pretty close to what I mentioned earlier, but a bit more extreme. 114LB = 1.14" rim diameter (vs. 1.5Gs 1.08") and a D cup is closer to Bach's C depth and it's 6.5AL depth. Mine works great.

JoshE · by **JoshE** » 2024-10-29 11:31 a.m.

I cut and glued up a couple Kelly plastic mouthpieces to make a 1 1/2g for my Olds R20. I used the shank of a small bore 5G (transparent green) and the rim and cup (pink and white swirl) of a large bore 1 1/2 G. Getting the throat diameters to match wound up making the mouthpiece a little long, so I jeweler-sawed off a couple millimeters from the rim. I only slightly rounded the cut rim, so it's very flat and sharp. If anybody is interested I'll upload a pic this evening.

I'm not a mouthpiece designer by any means and will probably go the Doug Elliot route if I keep playing a lot of trigger and pedal range stuff, but it was a fun (and cheap) experiment and works pretty well for my purposes.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2024-10-29 12:19 p.m.

If it works ... It's not all that strange, now is it? <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI>

GabrielRice · by **GabrielRice** » 2024-10-29 8:51 p.m.

I play pretty much everything with a Doug Elliott 114 rim (like a Schilke 60), so when I play large tenor I use an I cup, when I scale down bass or play euphonium I use a J cup, and when I play bass trumpet once every ten years or so I use an E cup with a small shank.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2024-10-31 12:21 a.m.

I took a few years off after some chop issues and am coming back to playing. I use a Doug Elliott 114 rim for both tenor and bass. J cup for bass and a G cup for tenor. I’m waiting on an order with Doug for a LB C+ and LB F cup for tenor.

If I had the time and was playing full time I’d absolutely use different rims for tenor and bass but with my limited practice time it’s a lifesaver being able to switch back and forth and use the same rim.

RustBeltBass · by **RustBeltBass** » 2024-11-16 10:07 a.m.

During the pandemic I had the luxury to have time to try out mouthpieces I would normally have not bothered to try as they were so out of my normal prefered sizes.

I tried and really liked the Black Premru. 2G sized and as I expected a bit too small overall for me but very fun to play and the rim was super comfortable. When I started to prepare for

auditions involving tenor trombone playing on top of bass playing, I had a GB tenor mouthpiece made with the RP rim. I knew this would not be al ong term solution but it helped me a lot with the transition as I gradually switched to more normal tenor sizes.

imsevimse · by **imsevimse** » 2024-11-16 1:37 p.m.

Strange to who? I've played a Benge 12C a lot for lead and that fit really well. I've played a Bach 15E on alto and that too works but I rather play a Bach 12E because it gives a little more room. Recently I switched between some basses I had on stands, a Holton TR180, Conn 71H, Holton TR183 and a Conn 73H. I thought I had the same mouthpiece-size on all, a Hammond 20BL. I have one with Morse taper and one with Remington taper, but it turned so out I had mixed things up and I played the Holtons with a Bach 2G. I did not notice this, and it worked really well with them. A Bach 2G is usually on the small side for me, but obviously it works well as long as I do not know it is a 2G.

/Tom

drewcoraccio · by **drewcoraccio** » 2024-12-14 3:54 p.m.

My newest addition to the stable (a Butler C12) came with an old Doug Elliot mouthpiece I believe to be a little funky. Now, I can’t figure out if it’s right for me as the verdict is still out but here are the specs.

Rim: LB112 (28.5mm)

Cup: BL (~Schilke 60)

Shank: L8s.490 (N/A)

I have been playing a Mercer & Barker Beast recently (great mouthpiece) so this is a slight decrease in rim size. But I can’t seem to find much info on the shank. It appears to be custom, as I can’t find any updated info on it but blows quite well. I know many people play on smaller mouthpieces but having started ok tuba I’ve always gravitated to larger pieces.

Any ideas on the mouthpiece and what the subscript “s.490” might mean on the shank??

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2024-12-14 5:52 p.m.

That is a full bass trombone mouthpiece. Isn't the C12 a tenor?

muschem · by **muschem** » 2024-12-14 6:01 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]That is a full bass trombone mouthpiece. Isn't the C12 a tenor?[/quote]

C12 is a bass, either with a single bore .562 slide or a dual bore .562/.578 (maybe the dual bore is a C13, but I've never seen it referred to that way).

C10 is a large bore tenor, with a single bore .547 slide

C9 is dual bore .525/.547

C8 is single bore .525

C6 and JJ are both .508

C5 and Lemondrop are .500

I've never seen or heard of a C7 or C11, but I'd imagine those might be dual bore slide options offered at some point in-between small/medium and large/bass bores, respectively.

UATrombone · by **UATrombone** » 2024-12-14 8:24 p.m.

[quote="drewcoraccio"]Any ideas on the mouthpiece and what the subscript “s.490” might mean on the shank??[/quote]
AFAIK "S" means smaller outer taper of shank.

I have C Alto S and C3S, both of them go deeper in the leadpipe than standard shanks (without S).

But, better explanation you could have from Doug.

He is a moderator here.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2024-12-14 9:25 p.m.

That's correct, s is for a smaller taper to go in farther and .490 is the end measurement for the large shank "s"

In 2004 I started stamping the year on my shanks, and I have made several design adjustments since then. I recommend 2023 and 2024 which are the same. And probably not the s taper.

And that cup would be LB L.

BrianJohnston · by **BrianJohnston** » 2024-12-15 9:46 p.m.

All of my mouthpieces are pretty standard, although Xtra wide rims work well for me, not very weird but less common.

KingThings · by **KingThings** » 2025-02-05 4:31 a.m.

My weirdest combo is an old Kosicup that is ancient that I sometimes use if I want a trumpety sound with my symphony horn. Its just fun.....

u_30hzbone · by **u_30hzbone** » 2025-02-05 9:25 a.m.

Perhaps not so strange,

but since a week or so I have been playing on a Kühnl & Hoyer 7.6 D

where the diameter of the opening is like a Bach 1 1/4G and

the depth like a Bach 1 1/2g,

a very comfortable and easy-to-play mouthpiece.

cubetrom · by **cubetrom** » 2025-02-09 12:47 p.m.

[quote="KingThings"]My weirdest combo is an old Kosicup that is ancient that I sometimes use if I want a trumpety sound with my symphony horn. Its just fun.....[/quote]

Ah yes... I had one with an old Blessing Scholastic. I remember it being great fun and surprisingly nice to play on.

Since I moved back from playing trumpet I've been preferring smaller mouthpieces. I got a Montreux 12C copy inexpensively off Amazon which arrived today and I think it's pretty awesome for less than £20 shipped. It certainly looks and sounds the part.

KingThings · by **KingThings** » 2025-02-11 2:59 a.m.

I love having a bunch of mouthpieces. They can really turn one horn into many for cheap. Plus its fun to play around. I use a #2 with my symphony tenor, and an 11 or 12 with my jazz horns. I have 6 1/2 and my old Kosicup. Enjoy your Montreaux!

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2025-07-03 8:58 p.m.

I find myself enjoying a Bach 2G with a Bach 42 horn. After playing in the upper register with bigger mouthpieces, I’ve found that the upper register is easier when going back to smaller horns and smaller mouthpieces. I’m sure many other players experience the same.

I get frustrated trying to access the pedals with smaller mouthpieces without awkward embouchure shifts, but getting the upper notes with bigger mouthpieces simply requires a straightforward approach that challenges me much less.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2025-07-04 5:35 p.m.

[quote="LetItSlide"]I find myself enjoying a Bach 2G with a Bach 42 horn. After playing in the upper register with bigger mouthpieces, I’ve found that the upper register is easier when going back to smaller horns and smaller mouthpieces. I’m sure many other players experience the same.

I get frustrated trying to access the pedals with smaller mouthpieces without awkward embouchure shifts, but getting the upper notes with bigger mouthpieces simply requires a straightforward approach that challenges me much less.[/quote]

You sound like a great candidate for either the DE system, with an XT106N rim, or the Alessi tenor mouthpieces. You might really like the sound you get out of those, you won't need the embouchure shifting for the low range, and the upper register will be much easier.

For me, a 2G feels great, but the sound is not right on tenor.

LetItSlide · by **LetItSlide** » 2025-07-05 9:52 p.m.

Thank you for the suggestion!

Johntrom · by **Johntrom** » 2025-07-07 5:43 p.m.

I play a Yamaha 48a alto mouthpiece on my Conn 24H tenor (Or any tenor for that matter).

The reason being is I like a very shallow cup to help with the higher end but a disproportionately large inner rim to maneuver my lips underneath to still access the lower end. Comparatively, if was to play on a typical 12C my lips would feel like they're in a straight jacket with the inner rim diameter and If I played something 6-1/2 AL ish or bigger, I'd be dragging concrete shoes along the ocean floor of my range. Never needed help with low end.

Frankly if I could have a more disproportionately shallow and wide mouthpiece, I would.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2025-07-07 6:04 p.m.

[quote="Johntrom"]...

Frankly if I could have a more disproportionately shallow and wide mouthpiece, I would.[/quote]

You can. There are Klier mouthpieces with wide inner diameters and very shallow cups. Doug Elliott will also pair a wide inner rim with a shallow cup.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2025-07-07 7:02 p.m.

I make lots of options that work extremely well for that combination.

Johntrom · by **Johntrom** » 2025-07-07 7:50 p.m.

Is there the option for a throat diameter of 5.32 like the 48a though?

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2025-07-07 11:28 p.m.

No.

Why don't you post a video, I'd be interested to see how that works for you.

Danitrb · by **Danitrb** » 2025-07-08 6:19 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="Johntrom" post_id="280604" time="1751924596" user_id="3957">
...

Frankly if I could have a more disproportionately shallow and wide mouthpiece, I would.[/quote]

You can. There are Klier mouthpieces with wide inner diameters and very shallow cups. Doug Elliott will also pair a wide inner rim with a shallow cup.
</QUOTE>

They are very good.

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What is the Strangest mouthpiece size combination that worked for you