2B or not 2B, That is the Question

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2024-11-23 1:38 p.m.

I`ve been a long time Bach player (2 - 12`s, 36, 36B, 42BO & 50B3). Lately I`ve been listening to a lot of John Allred and Pre- XO Fedchock. That 2B sound has gotten in my head. SOOOOOOOO I thought Id give it a try. In years past 2B`s NEVER worked for me. But my playing has changed.

I have 2 friends that have a 2B that they let me borrow. 1 is Brass Bell and the other is a silver sonic.

Both are great horns and I`m finding I`m really liking the 2B.

For you 2B players out there, What version do you prefer? Brass Bell or Silver?

Neither want to sell, but The Silver Sonic is easier to play and has a darker sound but both will BARK when neeeded.

JLivi · by **JLivi** » 2024-11-23 1:50 p.m.

Not a 2b player, but I'm a 3b player. I definitely prefer the a brass bell over the silver. I've have minimal experience with silver bells, but when I have played them (in practice rooms and arenas) they seem too heavy and my sound doesn't push the way I'm used to. It felt resistant and held back.

I'm also a player that prefer gold bells when there's a chance to play them. Every Gold Bell Bach I've played has always been better for me than the yellow brass. I want to say I've played a Yamaha gold bell too, but I can't remember. I've played a lot of different horns, but I've always ended up coming back to ol' faithful, my King 3b.

But when I was last at my repair tech we were talking about boutique horns and it might be time I try Greenhouse, Edwards and M&W. One of these days....

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2024-11-23 2:40 p.m.

It should be noted that before he switched to XO, John Fedchock did most of his work on the .500" 2B Plus with a gold brass bell. That was his setup when I saw him live in '09. Scintillating yet warm sound.

The standard 2B has been a standard for good reason, but don't count out the plus.

harrisonreed · 2024-11-23 3:33 p.m.

While I love my 3B Silversonic, there are times when a good old 2B in yellow brass is flat out easier to play upstairs. I love a good 2B! Do it. In an ideal world I'd split it that way -- 3B SS, 2B regular.

*Edit sp.

trombonebob · by **trombonebob** » 2024-11-23 3:35 p.m.

I tried several 2b instruments back to back. A regular 2b, a jiggs whigham, and a silver sonic. I found the silver sonic just spoke easier, it was much more responsive but could take much more air before it started to get bright and brassy. I thought it sounded warmer too. I don’t regret my choice, I’m glad I chose it over the others, which were both great instruments.

Bonephilly · by **Bonephilly** » 2024-11-24 9:52 a.m.

I've tried countless 2bs and never could relate to the dual bore. I like the Jiggs model a lot, then I got a a King liberty trombone. It was only made for a short time in the late 1930s before the 2b came out. It's .481 both tubes but doesn't play small. Similar feel to the jiggs but the slide is heavier which I like.

imsevimse · 2024-11-24 10:13 a.m.

I have several small bore King trombones. A brass King 3B with both slide and valves, a 3B with Bb/F, a 3B Silver Sonic, a regular brass dual bore 2B and also a Silvertone 2B. All are good, but even though I have these and a ton of other trombones I come back to my brass King 2B + with a Bach 11C each time when I'm on lead. Before I became a collector I played a King 3B with a Benge 12C as my main setup for jazz, lots of years. The last of those years I had the option to buy a Bach Mnt Vernon 12C mouthpiece so I switched to that, I still like it.

Then I sold that King 3B and bought a King 2B +. I bought it new in 2008. It was made in 2002 so was sold at a good price. I had some problems with the slide in 2014 and choose to buy a new horn, a Kanstul 1555 - a kind of Conn 4H inspiration with .500 bore. That too was a good horn but a bit weak compared to the 2B +. Then after a good clean the King 2B + was playable again so I could switch back.

The small tenors (.500) I play now are a brass King 2B +, Gerdt 216 (in Johan Stengård Jazz Big Band) and Gerdt 216 Bb/G (brass quartet). Nothing beats the 2B+ with a Bach 11C on lead.

/Tom

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2024-11-24 1:17 p.m.

Most 2B players I know use a Silver Sonic/Silvertone, while most 3B players I know (including myself) use yellow. Gotta be something to that.

mazman · by **mazman** » 2024-11-29 1:21 p.m.

2B SS is better in every way except weight. I have both.

Bard · by **Bard** » 2024-12-06 7:00 a.m.

I mostly play a brass 3B. I had a 2B SS but sold it. The 2B had a great sound but the 3B was much easier to play for me and I never had much time to spend on the 2B SS to get comfortable on it. (Also need to say that I am not a pro musician.) I considered getting a 3B SS but decided on sticking to the brass for now. The 3B is also maybe more "personal", that it is easier to colour the sound on the brass than on SS.

Ref also some good comments here: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=188802#p188802">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=188802#p188802</LINK_TEXT>

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2024-12-06 7:43 a.m.

I`ve been playing the 2BSS quite a bit and really liking the sound and feel.

The other day I was practicing on the King, and decided to play my daily driver for a while.

Lt Bach 12G with a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. Wow the sound difference was incredible!!

The Bach sounded so dark and lush . Same mouthpiece. Trying out a Mount Vernon Bach 12C

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-12-06 9:24 a.m.

[quote="Finetales"]Most 2B players I know use a Silver Sonic/Silvertone, while most 3B players I know (including myself) use yellow. Gotta be something to that.[/quote] I still regret not buying a SS 2B I really bonded with at Dillon Music. They are the "Mel Torme" of lead trombones. So velvety.

flyingcow · by **flyingcow** » 2024-12-09 9:39 a.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="Finetales" post_id="259383" time="1732472260" user_id="136">
Most 2B players I know use a Silver Sonic/Silvertone, while most 3B players I know (including myself) use yellow. Gotta be something to that.[/quote] I still regret not buying a SS 2B I really bonded with at Dillon Music. They are the "Mel Torme" of lead trombones. So velvety.
</QUOTE>

I can tell you I certainly do NOT regret buying my 2B Silvertone off the wall at Dillon all those years ago. They definitely take a bit more work than the brass version, but man are they incredible.

Thom · by **Thom** » 2024-12-09 9:41 a.m.

I played a 2B brass straight horn, used, for a couple of years. I liked it but I still prefer my Yamaha, IMHO.

silverbone57 · by **silverbone57** » 2025-02-17 10:26 p.m.

I like my silver-plated 1939 King 2B Liberty model bell section, with a gold wash in the bell flare, paired with a Jiggs Whigham slide section. The silver-plated 2B slide section weighs a ton, and I'm not a fan of the dual-bore aspect of the 2B. So that slide section is just hanging around here on the wall.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2025-02-18 12:15 a.m.

[quote="Finetales"]Most 2B players I know use a Silver Sonic/Silvertone, while most 3B players I know (including myself) use yellow. Gotta be something to that.[/quote]

I guess I'm an outlier.

I still enjoy my (1958) brass 2B, and loved (for a few years while I borrowed it) playing a 3B Silver Sonic.

Both great examples of King trombone design. :good:

Cmillar · 2025-02-19 8:19 a.m.

Some more 2B history... and the great Ian McDougall (retired lead trombone Boss Brass, Canadian/Toronto studio scene 1960's-80's)

(Don't know who Ian is/was? Please check him out! He was the Urbie Green of Canada.)

He played a variety of 2B's built from the 1950's through the 1980's. All SilverSonics or Silvers or whatever the versions they started building in the '60's-'70's.

In the early '80's he helped develop the original King 2B+ (yes he did!...I had lessons with him then and he'd mess around with various components in his house studio....wow, what a fabulous horn)

At that time in Toronto, you HAD to play a King 2B or 3B or you didn't get any work. If Ian played a 2B, then everyone had to. He was the guy.

Even Jerry Johnson had gone to a King, along with Bob Livingston and many others. I came to town with a Bach 16M. Ian basically said if I wanted to work I better get a 2B. I got one...then I got some good work. Funny how that goes.

Ian played the King 2B+, but then went back to a silver 2B at some point in early 90's or so.

Then, Ian started to play the Yamaha 697Z after Al Kay got one in Toronto.

Then, you basically didn't work in Toronto unless you had a 697Z. (Jerrry Johnson, Russ Little, etc. etc....all had Yamahas.)

Ian's quote: "The 697Z is basically a 2B but better."

Hmm...that's up for debate I guess. He certainly sounded awesome on his 697Z, but Ian would sound 'like Ian' on anything. He's probably one of the most naturally gifted trombone players to ever play.

Moral of story is: if a 2B was good enough for Urbie Green, Ian McDougall, Jerry Johnson, countless LA studio players, countless NYC studio players, then it's good enough for the rest of us!

(edited post: in order to get the proper Yamaha 697Z model number!)

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2025-02-19 9:09 a.m.

One point of information:

Yamaha 691 is a 3B equivalent (at least in bore size)

Yamaha 697 is a 2B equivalent (at least in bore size)

Both models have found favor among King players.

MrHCinDE · by **MrHCinDE** » 2025-02-19 4:08 p.m.

It isn’t a 2B but owning both a 2B Silvertone and Tempo 1305 (nickel plated bell, 0.491” single bore), there’s not as much between the two horns as the relative prices may suggest so if I were deciding between the brass and SS 2B, I’d think about a Tempo 1305 also.

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2025-02-19 4:32 p.m.

[quote="MrHCinDE"]It isn’t a 2B but owning both a 2B Silvertone and Tempo 1305 (nickel plated bell, 0.491” single bore), there’s not as much between the two horns as the relative prices may suggest so if I were deciding between the brass and SS 2B, I’d think about a Tempo 1305 also.[/quote]

Hello!

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/156704354261?m ... media=COPY">https://www.ebay.com/itm/156704354261?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_QAGwNKcSVW&sssrc=2051273&ssuid=_QAGwNKcSVW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY</LINK_TEXT>

Cmillar · by **Cmillar** » 2025-02-19 4:38 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]One point of information:

Yamaha 691 is a 3B equivalent (at least in bore size)

Yamaha 697 is a 2B equivalent (at least in bore size)

Both models have found favor among King players.[/quote]

Yeah!....I meant to write 697Z.....close enough for jazz as they say!

Marz · by **Marz** » 2025-03-03 11:43 a.m.

Both 2B and 3B are great

MomSoldMyHolton · by **MomSoldMyHolton** » 2025-03-06 6:54 p.m.

Curious as to whether the jiggs whigham model would be compatible with a 606 slide? I know not preferable…

Driswood · by **Driswood** » 2025-03-10 8:32 a.m.

[quote="Cmillar"]

Moral of story is: if a 2B was good enough for Urbie Green, Ian McDougall, Jerry Johnson, countless LA studio players, countless NYC studio players, then it's good enough for the rest of us!
[/quote]

That’s how I feel about my ‘57 6H. If it was good enough for Frank Rosolino, it’s good enough for me.

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2B or not 2B, That is the Question