Should all the scales be memorized?
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
I am just returning after a year off due to health issues and getting a full set of dentures. I am going back to the basics and taking online lessons from a very excellent teacher/instructor. I will ask him, of course, but I was wondering if a jazz improvisor needs to memorize all the scales?
Thanks
Thanks
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Thom"]...I was wondering if a jazz improvisor needs to memorize all the scales?[/quote]
I would say that you need to not just memorize them but know them such that you can play them without having to consciously think about them.
I would say that you need to not just memorize them but know them such that you can play them without having to consciously think about them.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I don't think you need to memorize all of the scales. Just the ones you need to use. You may find that once you are learning your Euler–Fokker scales in each key (a worthwhile pursuit!) you might have learned too many scales.
Don't neglect your 7EDO scales either!!
<YOUTUBE id="herViJCPR4E">[media]https://youtu.be/herViJCPR4E?si=GKOohy7WSVx3pywF</YOUTUBE>
Don't neglect your 7EDO scales either!!
<YOUTUBE id="herViJCPR4E">
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
I'd say for a traditional approach, all the major scales and 3 types of minor scales, plus chromatic, octatonics, whole tones, major and minor pentatonics.
In some disciplines (like jazz) you'll want to start looking at a specific list of commonly used modes from this list, too.
There are actually an infinite # of scales, which can really become overwhelming, when you get into microtonality. But finding ways to deal with that is way beyond the scope of normal.
In some disciplines (like jazz) you'll want to start looking at a specific list of commonly used modes from this list, too.
There are actually an infinite # of scales, which can really become overwhelming, when you get into microtonality. But finding ways to deal with that is way beyond the scope of normal.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
<YOUTUBE id="YaOI75_t0UQ">[media]https://youtu.be/YaOI75_t0UQ?si=Cytlt1MciS4qyZHo</YOUTUBE>
Not just scales, but every version of every note, so you are always in tune, even if you're playing on Venus!
Not just scales, but every version of every note, so you are always in tune, even if you're playing on Venus!
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
Basic Rhythms & Art of Improvising by Joe Tarto (digital edition): https://qpress.ca/product/basic-rhythms-art-improvising
A decent approach might be to get something like this and work through it just as a start. This book won't give you anything much at the top of the BC staff or higher (it's intended for "tuba, baritone, bass trombone, string bass, and bass guitar)", but it contains a lot of realistic exercises and examples regarding chords and chord drills, "patterns" (and a lot of syncopation drills) in different styles such as blues, dixieland, Charleston, boogie-woogie, rock, and Latin (Afro, Beguine, Bolero, Calypso, Conga, Cha-cha, etc., etc.), Plus numerous examples with alternative improvisations.
If you won't be going at it with a tuba or bass trombone, you'll probably want to take a lot of the exercises up an octave, and it may not be the best thing for you. But I think that something like it could get you going in the direction you want to go, perhaps better than just a book of scales. There now seems to be a lot of what appears to be good stuff around on improv and the basics. This is just something that's been sitting on my shelf for decades and I'm finally getting to it (slowly). :roll:
A decent approach might be to get something like this and work through it just as a start. This book won't give you anything much at the top of the BC staff or higher (it's intended for "tuba, baritone, bass trombone, string bass, and bass guitar)", but it contains a lot of realistic exercises and examples regarding chords and chord drills, "patterns" (and a lot of syncopation drills) in different styles such as blues, dixieland, Charleston, boogie-woogie, rock, and Latin (Afro, Beguine, Bolero, Calypso, Conga, Cha-cha, etc., etc.), Plus numerous examples with alternative improvisations.
If you won't be going at it with a tuba or bass trombone, you'll probably want to take a lot of the exercises up an octave, and it may not be the best thing for you. But I think that something like it could get you going in the direction you want to go, perhaps better than just a book of scales. There now seems to be a lot of what appears to be good stuff around on improv and the basics. This is just something that's been sitting on my shelf for decades and I'm finally getting to it (slowly). :roll:
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
[quote="AndrewMeronek"]I'd say for a traditional approach, all the major scales and 3 types of minor scales, plus chromatic, octatonics, whole tones, major and minor pentatonics.
In some disciplines (like jazz) you'll want to start looking at a specific list of commonly used modes from this list, too.
There are actually an infinite # of scales, which can really become overwhelming, when you get into microtonality. But finding ways to deal with that is way beyond the scope of normal.[/quote]
I plan on using the Arbans for Trombone for now to get the basics, because when I was in school and local bands I never really did the basic fundamentals, or practiced, I just played. My teacher/instructor is doing my lesson plans for now. I thank y'all for the replies, very helpful. It is just something I was thinking about for the future, once I am back in shape and getting more advanced.
In some disciplines (like jazz) you'll want to start looking at a specific list of commonly used modes from this list, too.
There are actually an infinite # of scales, which can really become overwhelming, when you get into microtonality. But finding ways to deal with that is way beyond the scope of normal.[/quote]
I plan on using the Arbans for Trombone for now to get the basics, because when I was in school and local bands I never really did the basic fundamentals, or practiced, I just played. My teacher/instructor is doing my lesson plans for now. I thank y'all for the replies, very helpful. It is just something I was thinking about for the future, once I am back in shape and getting more advanced.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="AndrewMeronek"]There are actually an infinite # of scales, which can really become overwhelming, ...[/quote]
Yeah, and you have to beware of the "You have to know everything before you can do anything" approach (which is what slowed down the development of AI for decades, but that's a different story). Maybe just learn some blues scales and start with improv in that direction? Relaxed, non-frantic, and fun?
Yeah, and you have to beware of the "You have to know everything before you can do anything" approach (which is what slowed down the development of AI for decades, but that's a different story). Maybe just learn some blues scales and start with improv in that direction? Relaxed, non-frantic, and fun?
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Yes. Further, they should be ingrained so you don’t have to remember them, but are able to play them without having to engage the active thinking part of the brain and instead rely on the muscle memory and “feeling” part of the brain.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]Yes. Further, they should be ingrained so you don’t have to remember them, but are able to play them without having to engage the active thinking part of the brain and instead rely on the muscle memory and “feeling” part of the brain.[/quote]
One problem is that this gets a LOT harder with advanced age. And part of it can be a kind of age-related sag in short-term memory. I've noticed it happening over the past couple of years and it is SO irritating.
The two areas I've noticed it in are playing music and playing chess. Why do I now so frequently need to check which key I'm supposed to be playing in? That's just crazy. :lol: Why do I have so much trouble remembering what the third move by Black is in the Nimzo-Indian Defense? The same sort of thing even applies to "muscle memory" and "feeling". You CAN get (pretty much) to the point you want. But it takes a LOT more repetition, different kinds of repetition, and effort. :cry:
I still remember a lot of (sometimes very complex) things that I learned in my youth (foreign language stuff and complex math), I can still recite poems I learned over 50 years ago ("Jaberwocky" is an example). I bet that I could still sit down with a saxophone or flute and be playing it decently in fifteen or twenty minutes. But learning new stuff can be very challenging and take a lot of time and effort. However, when appropriate, trying for the "muscle memory and feeling" approach is best. So while I may not be able to tell you for sure what the third move of the Nimzo-Indian is, if I'm sitting at the board I'll "know" what it should be. Really weird.
One problem is that this gets a LOT harder with advanced age. And part of it can be a kind of age-related sag in short-term memory. I've noticed it happening over the past couple of years and it is SO irritating.
The two areas I've noticed it in are playing music and playing chess. Why do I now so frequently need to check which key I'm supposed to be playing in? That's just crazy. :lol: Why do I have so much trouble remembering what the third move by Black is in the Nimzo-Indian Defense? The same sort of thing even applies to "muscle memory" and "feeling". You CAN get (pretty much) to the point you want. But it takes a LOT more repetition, different kinds of repetition, and effort. :cry:
I still remember a lot of (sometimes very complex) things that I learned in my youth (foreign language stuff and complex math), I can still recite poems I learned over 50 years ago ("Jaberwocky" is an example). I bet that I could still sit down with a saxophone or flute and be playing it decently in fifteen or twenty minutes. But learning new stuff can be very challenging and take a lot of time and effort. However, when appropriate, trying for the "muscle memory and feeling" approach is best. So while I may not be able to tell you for sure what the third move of the Nimzo-Indian is, if I'm sitting at the board I'll "know" what it should be. Really weird.
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
I am 64 years old and can relate to age related memory issues, though not with music so much, just names and dates <EMOJI seq="1f644" tseq="1f644">🙄</EMOJI>
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
I understand. I am 61, and have a couple health-related things that affect memory, so I get it.
For solos, you could always write out something and then vary it to suit your mood, the setting, etc. I would hope that makes it a little easier than improvising in the heat of battle.
For solos, you could always write out something and then vary it to suit your mood, the setting, etc. I would hope that makes it a little easier than improvising in the heat of battle.
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
Yes, it is my understanding that Bill Watrous (sp?) wrote and memorized his solos. I have thought about trying that after I get back in shape and learn the slide really well. I played mostly tuba and bass bone and never really learned a straight tenor properly. <EMOJI seq="1f937" tseq="1f937">🤷</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f600" tseq="1f600">😀</EMOJI>
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
No. Bill was a real improvisor, he did not memorize his solos although he had a lot of ingrained licks and ideas that used a lot... but all jazz players do that to a certain extent. They may sound "composed" just because of his perfection in execution.
Now J.J did work out solos in advance. They sounded composed because they were.
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales. I play them by ear - know what they sound like and play that - not by what the sharps and flats are. That's sort of a function of having perfect pitch. In school I had trouble learning intervals because I identified them by what notes they were instead of what the interval was. I can't really think intervalically.
Now J.J did work out solos in advance. They sounded composed because they were.
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales. I play them by ear - know what they sound like and play that - not by what the sharps and flats are. That's sort of a function of having perfect pitch. In school I had trouble learning intervals because I identified them by what notes they were instead of what the interval was. I can't really think intervalically.
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
[quote="Doug Elliott"]No. Bill was a real improvisor, he did not memorize his solos although he had a lot of ingrained licks and ideas that used a lot... but all jazz players do that to a certain extent. They may sound "composed" just because of his perfection in execution.
Now J.J did work out solos in advance. They sounded composed because they were.
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from.a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales. I play them by ear - know what they sound like and play that - not by what the sharps and flats are. That's sort of a function of having perfect pitch. In school Ihad trouble learning intervals because I identified them by what notes they were instead of what the interval was.[/quote]
Thanks, good advice.
Now J.J did work out solos in advance. They sounded composed because they were.
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from.a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales. I play them by ear - know what they sound like and play that - not by what the sharps and flats are. That's sort of a function of having perfect pitch. In school Ihad trouble learning intervals because I identified them by what notes they were instead of what the interval was.[/quote]
Thanks, good advice.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="Thom"]I plan on using the Arbans for Trombone for now to get the basics, because when I was in school and local bands I never really did the basic fundamentals, or practiced, I just played. My teacher/instructor is doing my lesson plans for now. I thank y'all for the replies, very helpful. It is just something I was thinking about for the future, once I am back in shape and getting more advanced.[/quote]
Diving into Arbans is an excellent plan.
You'll also want to grab a copy of Rochut book 1. The phrasing and legato studies that one can dive into with those exercises are something that covers a gap in the Arban's stuff.
Diving into Arbans is an excellent plan.
You'll also want to grab a copy of Rochut book 1. The phrasing and legato studies that one can dive into with those exercises are something that covers a gap in the Arban's stuff.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]Regarding scales, I learn things differently from a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales.[/quote]
I have them memorized, and I can peck out scales that I don't know by ear too.
Also: playing scales by ear is NOT the same as reading scale-based patterns on a sheet of music. If we want to do both, we gotta practice both.
I have them memorized, and I can peck out scales that I don't know by ear too.
Also: playing scales by ear is NOT the same as reading scale-based patterns on a sheet of music. If we want to do both, we gotta practice both.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="AndrewMeronek"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="260226" time="1733254535" user_id="51">
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales.[/quote]
I have them memorized, and I can peck out scales that I don't know by ear too.
Also: playing scales by ear is NOT the same as reading scale-based patterns on a sheet of music. If we want to do both, we gotta practice both.
</QUOTE>
Absolutely. You should hit everything from every angle.
Regarding scales, I learn things differently from a lot of people but I have never "memorized" scales.[/quote]
I have them memorized, and I can peck out scales that I don't know by ear too.
Also: playing scales by ear is NOT the same as reading scale-based patterns on a sheet of music. If we want to do both, we gotta practice both.
</QUOTE>
Absolutely. You should hit everything from every angle.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I think this comes under the heading of "Duh!" Yes, of course you need to know your scales by memory. And not just the scales, but patterns you can play on those scales, too.
No, you don't need microtone and weird-ass scales that the criminally obsessed invent. But you do need to know all the scales you will use in jazz, which include major and minor, whole tone, half-step/whole-step diminished, altered dominant, pentatonic (major and minor), and blues scales (major and minor). They need to be second nature.
And yeah, you should have them down equally in all 12 keys. But in reality, in jazz we don't often have to play in 6-7 sharps or flats. But 5 sharps or flats, yeah. So, on one side of the circle of 5ths/4ths, you want to lean the flat scales up to Db (C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab and Db), and on the other side your sharp scales up to B (C, G, D, A, E, B).
Scales in every usable key should be automatic. You shouldn't have to even think about them. Get on it!
No, you don't need microtone and weird-ass scales that the criminally obsessed invent. But you do need to know all the scales you will use in jazz, which include major and minor, whole tone, half-step/whole-step diminished, altered dominant, pentatonic (major and minor), and blues scales (major and minor). They need to be second nature.
And yeah, you should have them down equally in all 12 keys. But in reality, in jazz we don't often have to play in 6-7 sharps or flats. But 5 sharps or flats, yeah. So, on one side of the circle of 5ths/4ths, you want to lean the flat scales up to Db (C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab and Db), and on the other side your sharp scales up to B (C, G, D, A, E, B).
Scales in every usable key should be automatic. You shouldn't have to even think about them. Get on it!
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="Thom"]Yes, it is my understanding that Bill Watrous (sp?) wrote and memorized his solos. I have thought about trying that after I get back in shape and learn the slide really well. I played mostly tuba and bass bone and never really learned a straight tenor properly. <EMOJI seq="1f937" tseq="1f937">🤷</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f600" tseq="1f600">😀</EMOJI>[/quote]
Yeah, I played with Watrous for 15 years. He was a friend. Trust me when I say your understanding is incorrect. Not even close. Who in the world told you that?
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D
Yeah, I played with Watrous for 15 years. He was a friend. Trust me when I say your understanding is incorrect. Not even close. Who in the world told you that?
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="Doug Elliott"]That's sort of a function of having perfect pitch.[/quote]
Another thing I can envy about Doug. :)
Another thing I can envy about Doug. :)
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
[quote="tbdana"]I think this comes under the heading of "Duh!" Yes, of course you need to know your scales by memory. And not just the scales, but patterns you can play on those scales, too.
No, you don't need microtone and weird-ass scales that the criminally obsessed invent. But you do need to know all the scales you will use in jazz, which include major and minor, whole tone, half-step/whole-step diminished, altered dominant, pentatonic (major and minor), and blues scales (major and minor). They need to be second nature.
And yeah, you should have them down equally in all 12 keys. But in reality, in jazz we don't often have to play in 6-7 sharps or flats. But 5 sharps or flats, yeah. So, on one side of the circle of 5ths/4ths, you want to lean the flat scales up to Db (C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab and Db), and on the other side your sharp scales up to B (C, G, D, A, E, B).
Scales in every usable key should be automatic. You shouldn't have to even think about them. Get on it![/quote]
Thank y'all. I will use the info to the best of my ability.
No, you don't need microtone and weird-ass scales that the criminally obsessed invent. But you do need to know all the scales you will use in jazz, which include major and minor, whole tone, half-step/whole-step diminished, altered dominant, pentatonic (major and minor), and blues scales (major and minor). They need to be second nature.
And yeah, you should have them down equally in all 12 keys. But in reality, in jazz we don't often have to play in 6-7 sharps or flats. But 5 sharps or flats, yeah. So, on one side of the circle of 5ths/4ths, you want to lean the flat scales up to Db (C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab and Db), and on the other side your sharp scales up to B (C, G, D, A, E, B).
Scales in every usable key should be automatic. You shouldn't have to even think about them. Get on it![/quote]
Thank y'all. I will use the info to the best of my ability.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="tbdana"]
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D[/quote]
I read an interview with Ravi Shankar. It was long ago, I might misremember slightly. But basically they asked him if he played his sitar pieces the same way every time or if they were largely improvised. He replied he played it exactly the same. Then they showed him that in two different recordings he was playing different notes. His answer was no, they're exactly the same. Those different notes don't matter.
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D[/quote]
I read an interview with Ravi Shankar. It was long ago, I might misremember slightly. But basically they asked him if he played his sitar pieces the same way every time or if they were largely improvised. He replied he played it exactly the same. Then they showed him that in two different recordings he was playing different notes. His answer was no, they're exactly the same. Those different notes don't matter.
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
Yes the scales should be memorised. I teach children from 8 to 20 years old. And scales are so big part of all music today and in history, theory and daily practice . It's a ground floor of all music anywhere in the world. Of course with children we start in the small side of it. When teaching small children I often get a reminder. I should follow my own advices. :shuffle:
Leif
Leif
- norbie2018
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Apr 05, 2018
Buddy Baker's method provides a systematic way of learning major, natural, harmonic, & melodic minor, whole tone, and diminished scales plus arpeggios. Highly recommended if you're just starting out your scale journey or if you need a refresher.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
99.9% of my playing is off the guitar/keyboard players chord sheet. I’d be lost with my improv playing if i didn’t have my scales memorized. I normally swap between trumpet, trombone, euph, and an occasional French horn on any given day.
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
[quote="BrassSection"]99.9% of my playing is off the guitar/keyboard players chord sheet. I’d be lost with my improv playing if i didn’t have my scales memorized. I normally swap between trumpet, trombone, euph, and an occasional French horn on any given day.[/quote]
I am just starting to learn the major scales. I practice transposing treble clef piano hymns on my trombone. I am working on the major scales and then when I have them memorized I will do the minors, etc. I am impressed with people who can improvise, especially on multiple instruments, probably because improvising is still a mystery to me. My strength is in sight reading. I believe my trombone instructor will help me get a handle on how to go about learning to improvise.
I am just starting to learn the major scales. I practice transposing treble clef piano hymns on my trombone. I am working on the major scales and then when I have them memorized I will do the minors, etc. I am impressed with people who can improvise, especially on multiple instruments, probably because improvising is still a mystery to me. My strength is in sight reading. I believe my trombone instructor will help me get a handle on how to go about learning to improvise.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
[quote="Thom"]My strength is in sight reading. I believe my trombone instructor will help me get a handle on how to go about learning to improvise.[/quote]
Sight reading never was my forte, but seems to be improving with age. Joined a community band for a Christmas concert. Trumpet and trombones a plenty, so I signed up on euphonium. Surprised myself the first practice, even nailed The Halleujah Chorus first time thru.
Good luck on your journey.
Sight reading never was my forte, but seems to be improving with age. Joined a community band for a Christmas concert. Trumpet and trombones a plenty, so I signed up on euphonium. Surprised myself the first practice, even nailed The Halleujah Chorus first time thru.
Good luck on your journey.
- Thom
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Nov 29, 2024
[quote="BrassSection"]<QUOTE author="Thom" post_id="260599" time="1733527292" user_id="18833">
My strength is in sight reading. I believe my trombone instructor will help me get a handle on how to go about learning to improvise.[/quote]
Sight reading never was my forte, but seems to be improving with age. Joined a community band for a Christmas concert. Trumpet and trombones a plenty, so I signed up on euphonium. Surprised myself the first practice, even nailed The Halleujah Chorus first time thru.
Good luck on your journey.
</QUOTE>
Thnks
My strength is in sight reading. I believe my trombone instructor will help me get a handle on how to go about learning to improvise.[/quote]
Sight reading never was my forte, but seems to be improving with age. Joined a community band for a Christmas concert. Trumpet and trombones a plenty, so I signed up on euphonium. Surprised myself the first practice, even nailed The Halleujah Chorus first time thru.
Good luck on your journey.
</QUOTE>
Thnks
- Wilktone
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
Rather than worrying about trying to get ALL the scales memorized quickly, I think you should prioritize which scales you practice. And include the chord arpeggio too (extended to the 7th or 9th).
Blues scales and pentatonic scales are pretty nice ones to learn, as they contain fewer notes to memorize. They also will give the melodies you come up with a nice contour, as they will contain both steps and leaps naturally.
Personally, I'd suggest you prioritize major scales and two of the modes, dorian (starts on the 2nd degree of the major scale) and mixolydian (starts on the 5th degree of the major scales). I'd also suggest that you think of the two modes according to their root pitch, not the parent major scales, as that will help you get a handle on the chords that they fit and other color tones a little more intuitively. For example, think of D dorian as a D major scale with a lowered 3rd and 7th instead of a C major scale starting on D.
And as you're working through those three different scales, think about practicing them in the context of a ii-V-I progression (which does put all three in the same key signature). For example, practice a D dorian/Dmin9 chord arpeggio, followed by G mixolydian/G9 chord, followed by C major/Cmaj9 chord.
I don't want to discourage you from practicing the 3 basic minor scales, but they are not so useful for jazz improvisation. For practicing in minor keys I'd suggest starting with the "jazz melodic" minor scale. That scale is like a major scale with just a lowered 3rd. Or another way to think about it is that it is a melodic minor scale ascending, but you keep the raised 6th and 7th on the way down too. If that's your tonic of a minor ii-V-i progression then practice the locrian/half diminished chord, and the "altered dominant scale."
Another reason why I suggest the jazz melodic minor scale is because it can be used to help you learn the altered dominant scale. Another name for that scale I sometimes hear is the "super locrian" mode. Locrian mode is like a major scale beginning on the 7th degree. a "super locrian" is like the jazz melodic minor scale beginning on the 7th degree.
For example, B altered dominant (or "super locrian" or "diminished whole tone scale, they are the same thing) would be a C jazz melodic minor scale, starting on B.
B, C, D, Eb (D#, really), F, G, A, B.
That gives you the root, major 3rd, and dominant 7th of the chord. All the other pitches in it are alterations of the 5th and 9th (b5, #5, b9, #9).
But I'd concentrate on the major ii-V-I progression first, then gradually start working on the minors (and other scales as they come up). Lightly touch on all the keys, but you can pick keys that you're more likely to play on to focus more on at first. When you get very comfortable in one key it becomes easier to pick up on other keys, with later focus and attention.
Dave
Blues scales and pentatonic scales are pretty nice ones to learn, as they contain fewer notes to memorize. They also will give the melodies you come up with a nice contour, as they will contain both steps and leaps naturally.
Personally, I'd suggest you prioritize major scales and two of the modes, dorian (starts on the 2nd degree of the major scale) and mixolydian (starts on the 5th degree of the major scales). I'd also suggest that you think of the two modes according to their root pitch, not the parent major scales, as that will help you get a handle on the chords that they fit and other color tones a little more intuitively. For example, think of D dorian as a D major scale with a lowered 3rd and 7th instead of a C major scale starting on D.
And as you're working through those three different scales, think about practicing them in the context of a ii-V-I progression (which does put all three in the same key signature). For example, practice a D dorian/Dmin9 chord arpeggio, followed by G mixolydian/G9 chord, followed by C major/Cmaj9 chord.
I don't want to discourage you from practicing the 3 basic minor scales, but they are not so useful for jazz improvisation. For practicing in minor keys I'd suggest starting with the "jazz melodic" minor scale. That scale is like a major scale with just a lowered 3rd. Or another way to think about it is that it is a melodic minor scale ascending, but you keep the raised 6th and 7th on the way down too. If that's your tonic of a minor ii-V-i progression then practice the locrian/half diminished chord, and the "altered dominant scale."
Another reason why I suggest the jazz melodic minor scale is because it can be used to help you learn the altered dominant scale. Another name for that scale I sometimes hear is the "super locrian" mode. Locrian mode is like a major scale beginning on the 7th degree. a "super locrian" is like the jazz melodic minor scale beginning on the 7th degree.
For example, B altered dominant (or "super locrian" or "diminished whole tone scale, they are the same thing) would be a C jazz melodic minor scale, starting on B.
B, C, D, Eb (D#, really), F, G, A, B.
That gives you the root, major 3rd, and dominant 7th of the chord. All the other pitches in it are alterations of the 5th and 9th (b5, #5, b9, #9).
But I'd concentrate on the major ii-V-I progression first, then gradually start working on the minors (and other scales as they come up). Lightly touch on all the keys, but you can pick keys that you're more likely to play on to focus more on at first. When you get very comfortable in one key it becomes easier to pick up on other keys, with later focus and attention.
Dave
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Just came across this and thought it might be useful. I'd memorize all of these, starting with the first and just going through them.
<ATTACHMENT filename="common jazz scales.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]common jazz scales.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
This is a good start.
<ATTACHMENT filename="common jazz scales.jpg" index="0">
This is a good start.
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Yes, and then get off the roots and start the scales in roughly the same place on the horn, and listen to their melodies. It's just convention to start them on a root. If you have to, play the root, then move up to the middle of the horn and play the scale from there, from whatever starting note is convenient. Get the SOUND of the thing in your head, not so much the name. Move to other parts of the horn and repeat.
- dershem
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
[quote="tbdana"]<QUOTE author="Thom" post_id="260222" time="1733253773" user_id="18833">
Yes, it is my understanding that Bill Watrous (sp?) wrote and memorized his solos. I have thought about trying that after I get back in shape and learn the slide really well. I played mostly tuba and bass bone and never really learned a straight tenor properly. <EMOJI seq="1f937" tseq="1f937">🤷</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f600" tseq="1f600">😀</EMOJI>[/quote]
Yeah, I played with Watrous for 15 years. He was a friend. Trust me when I say your understanding is incorrect. Not even close. Who in the world told you that?
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D
</QUOTE>
Hell, Bill used to talk about his days in the Navy Band, and how he didn't start out being able to read worth a damn. He played from the heart and mind, not from the page. I worked with him occasionally, and he rarely played the same thing twice the same way.
Yes, it is my understanding that Bill Watrous (sp?) wrote and memorized his solos. I have thought about trying that after I get back in shape and learn the slide really well. I played mostly tuba and bass bone and never really learned a straight tenor properly. <EMOJI seq="1f937" tseq="1f937">🤷</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f600" tseq="1f600">😀</EMOJI>[/quote]
Yeah, I played with Watrous for 15 years. He was a friend. Trust me when I say your understanding is incorrect. Not even close. Who in the world told you that?
Now, it's true that some folks do play nearly identical solos every time the play the same tune. And when you're playing the same tune every night for years, you do tend to settle over time on licks and shapes that work well. But Billy wasn't like that, at all. Every night was a new adventure. LOL! :D
</QUOTE>
Hell, Bill used to talk about his days in the Navy Band, and how he didn't start out being able to read worth a damn. He played from the heart and mind, not from the page. I worked with him occasionally, and he rarely played the same thing twice the same way.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="dershem"]
Hell, Bill used to talk about his days in the Navy Band, and how he didn't start out being able to read worth a damn. He played from the heart and mind, not from the page. I worked with him occasionally, and he rarely played the same thing twice the same way.[/quote]
Fun fact: everyone I ever met who was with Billy in his Navy days says he was just an ordinary player at the time. No indication he would ever be anything special. Sometime after the Navy, he morphed into the monster we all remember. I was at the Navy School of Music in 1973, several years after Bill was, and they had not yet then started talking about him. That changed a couple years later.
Not to say that Bill never repeated things. He had licks he played all the time. I heard them so many times I learned a lot of them through absorption.
Hell, Bill used to talk about his days in the Navy Band, and how he didn't start out being able to read worth a damn. He played from the heart and mind, not from the page. I worked with him occasionally, and he rarely played the same thing twice the same way.[/quote]
Fun fact: everyone I ever met who was with Billy in his Navy days says he was just an ordinary player at the time. No indication he would ever be anything special. Sometime after the Navy, he morphed into the monster we all remember. I was at the Navy School of Music in 1973, several years after Bill was, and they had not yet then started talking about him. That changed a couple years later.
Not to say that Bill never repeated things. He had licks he played all the time. I heard them so many times I learned a lot of them through absorption.
- dershem
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
Like many of us, he had a library of licks he pulled out and connected as he needed them. But he tended to change up, even on tunes he played a lot. He liked to live in the moment.
My old 'Uncle', Sandy Weishaupt, was his teacher at SOM, and played with a similar sound - round and full, and very melodic and sweet. He and Bill had good things to say about each other. But I remember talking to some cats he worked with in San Diego, when he played off-base, and they say they saw/heard the seed of what he would become later. He just didn't use them at work. Maybe he felt constrained somehow? :D
My old 'Uncle', Sandy Weishaupt, was his teacher at SOM, and played with a similar sound - round and full, and very melodic and sweet. He and Bill had good things to say about each other. But I remember talking to some cats he worked with in San Diego, when he played off-base, and they say they saw/heard the seed of what he would become later. He just didn't use them at work. Maybe he felt constrained somehow? :D
- mgladdish
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Oct 10, 2021
I built this tool a while back - it's a webapp that can render the most common modes and scales in any clef, in any key. I personally find it much easier to use than pages of sheet music or a long pdf writing them all out longhand.
https://scaleshed.com/modes
I really ought to get back to this - there's a ton of more useful stuff I'd like to build in this space. It's really rough-looking, but it's functional.
https://scaleshed.com/modes
I really ought to get back to this - there's a ton of more useful stuff I'd like to build in this space. It's really rough-looking, but it's functional.
- drpmorris99
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mar 08, 2025
This is a really interesting thread. I’ve been becoming more aware that I never really “learned” or memorised the scales, (other than just enough to scrape the next grade exam!). Now I’ve come back to playing 20 years on, and I’m doing a lot more big band stuff I wish I had! Especially as I never learned to improvise as a youth player and really want to get better at that now.
However, I find memorising from sheet music nigh on impossible. I can play the same chart 100 times in a row from the chart, take it away and I have no clue where to start with what I just played. Scales are the same in that way to me. Anyone else like that? Anyone got any tried and tested ways of improving the way I can memorise things? I have found that learning by ear does help a bit - so I learned autumn leaves by playing along with Chet Baker, and that kind of stuck… (maybe I’m answering my own question here!).
I wonder if perhaps as a youth player where everything was reading, I almost took the “notes out” and just translated straight from page to instrument without really being conscious of “that’s a Bb to an Eb” it was more page to slide position… and maybe the pitching came from the fact I did a lot of choir singing back then so could understand what it should sound like, but there was some kind of disjoin that makes it tough to “memorise”. Interestingly, I could and still can sing from memory far more easily, but then we learned more by ear for that in the choirs I was signing from. I can still sing songs now that I learned in the junior choirs even though I’ve not heard them for years, they just pop into my head!
Anyways, this post is longer than I planned for my first! So, in summary - what methods and ways do people use to actually memorise and does anyone else find it hard to memorise from reading the music?
Thanks for all the useful info on all these pages! Feels like I have a lifetime of catching up to do!
Paul
However, I find memorising from sheet music nigh on impossible. I can play the same chart 100 times in a row from the chart, take it away and I have no clue where to start with what I just played. Scales are the same in that way to me. Anyone else like that? Anyone got any tried and tested ways of improving the way I can memorise things? I have found that learning by ear does help a bit - so I learned autumn leaves by playing along with Chet Baker, and that kind of stuck… (maybe I’m answering my own question here!).
I wonder if perhaps as a youth player where everything was reading, I almost took the “notes out” and just translated straight from page to instrument without really being conscious of “that’s a Bb to an Eb” it was more page to slide position… and maybe the pitching came from the fact I did a lot of choir singing back then so could understand what it should sound like, but there was some kind of disjoin that makes it tough to “memorise”. Interestingly, I could and still can sing from memory far more easily, but then we learned more by ear for that in the choirs I was signing from. I can still sing songs now that I learned in the junior choirs even though I’ve not heard them for years, they just pop into my head!
Anyways, this post is longer than I planned for my first! So, in summary - what methods and ways do people use to actually memorise and does anyone else find it hard to memorise from reading the music?
Thanks for all the useful info on all these pages! Feels like I have a lifetime of catching up to do!
Paul
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Welcome, and two quick thoughts from me.
1. As I age, memorizing becomes harder.
2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.
1. As I age, memorizing becomes harder.
2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="tbdana"]2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.[/quote]
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="EriKon"]<QUOTE author="tbdana" post_id="275445" time="1746888480" user_id="16498">
2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.[/quote]
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.
</QUOTE>
I agree with everything you said, Erik, and I don't think we're at cross purposes here. Maybe I misunderstood the poster, but it seemed to be about memorizing music parts (e.g., melodies) more so than scales. My thing on that is that if you know what the melody/part sounds like, if you have good ears you can just hear it and play it without having to go through a rote memorization process, with the added benefit that you can then play it in any key.
This of course has nothing at all to do with knowing how to play the instrument. Obviously you've heard me go on and on about the necessity to be able to play the entire instrument, and how important knowing scales and arpeggios are to that effort.
2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.[/quote]
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.
</QUOTE>
I agree with everything you said, Erik, and I don't think we're at cross purposes here. Maybe I misunderstood the poster, but it seemed to be about memorizing music parts (e.g., melodies) more so than scales. My thing on that is that if you know what the melody/part sounds like, if you have good ears you can just hear it and play it without having to go through a rote memorization process, with the added benefit that you can then play it in any key.
This of course has nothing at all to do with knowing how to play the instrument. Obviously you've heard me go on and on about the necessity to be able to play the entire instrument, and how important knowing scales and arpeggios are to that effort.
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
I think we should try to memorise. Or at least practice them. Scales are so big part of the musical history. Pythagoras was in fact a part of it. I didn't know. It's so big part in all music genres we know today. It is in our ears all the time. Thats why it's a tool for almost anything like intonation, melodic patterns, chords, yes even our sense of musicality. Where one note leads to the next. Where it makes all notes have a purpose to the next one. Either be neutral or leading to the next.
Ok, have to admit my practice routine about scales has gone down over the years. :shuffle: Shouldn't tell this but now a days I just take some main major scales... :shuffle: But in my younger days my teacher told me to write down all scales. Major, all variants of minor, chromatic, hole tone. And practice, memorise all in two octaves. Puuh, thats a long time ago. :)
Anyway, scales are a main part of all music, and it's an endless tool for everything. Our fantasy is our limit.
Leif
Ok, have to admit my practice routine about scales has gone down over the years. :shuffle: Shouldn't tell this but now a days I just take some main major scales... :shuffle: But in my younger days my teacher told me to write down all scales. Major, all variants of minor, chromatic, hole tone. And practice, memorise all in two octaves. Puuh, thats a long time ago. :)
Anyway, scales are a main part of all music, and it's an endless tool for everything. Our fantasy is our limit.
Leif
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
You need to memorize all common scales. And the work can be varied so you don’t get stuck or limited. Every day as part of my warmup I play scales up and down and arpeggios from low Bb to double high Bb. One day I’ll do major scales, the next natural minor, then maybe harmonic minor, maybe half-diminished scales the following day, or whole tone scales or a minor blues scale or pentatonic or a modal scale. Just mix it up. Keeps it interesting and fun, and you learn them all over time without stressing or it becoming a chore.
- drpmorris99
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mar 08, 2025
[quote="tbdana"]2. Using your ear is the easiest way to do it. If you have a good ear, you don't even need to memorize it, you just need to be able to "hear" it in your head and you can play it.[/quote]
[quote="EriKon"][quote=tbdana post_id=275445 time=<a href="tel:1746888480">1746888480</a> user_id=16498]
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.[/quote]
And this is perhaps a key take away for me personally, I don’t know the instrument “well enough” to just play by ear. I can figure something out by ear through trial and error by playing along to a recording, but I’m a very long way way from then being able to move that to another key for example.
It seems from reading here then, that learning scales and arpeggios is a key part of getting to really “know” the instrument. That takes me back to my other post in a way - how do you go about memorising the scales? As I said I struggle to go from page to memory, so just playing scales from a book seems to be a waste of time to some degree, I need to find a way to really learn them, but I’m not really sure where to start. I should also point out, I’m only an amateur player, so don’t have hours a day to spend doing it, but I do want to get better and understand more and more that the scales and arpeggios are a key part of that. I just haven’t figured out how to unlock them for me yet! I saw Buddy Baker get a mention above, I do have a copy of that, so maybe that would be a good idea to take another look at but I still need to find a different approach to just reading them.
Question - what do you other players actually “think about” when learning scales? Are you thinking the note names as you play? Thinking about the pattern of the scale? Visualising the notes on a stave? Eventually I presume it becomes fairly subconscious, but presumably when setting out there’s more of a conscious thought process, I’d be interested to hear what people do!
Thanks
Paul
[quote="EriKon"][quote=tbdana post_id=275445 time=<a href="tel:1746888480">1746888480</a> user_id=16498]
I used to say this as well, but working with ambitious students since a few years I don't buy this anymore. You still need to be safe across the whole range of the instrument and need to be sure of where those notes lay on the instrument which is particularly harder on trombone (eg. than on piano). The best ear doesn't help you at all if you don't know the instrument well enough. And with most cases, knowing the instrument well enough means working on scales, arpeggios and so on.[/quote]
And this is perhaps a key take away for me personally, I don’t know the instrument “well enough” to just play by ear. I can figure something out by ear through trial and error by playing along to a recording, but I’m a very long way way from then being able to move that to another key for example.
It seems from reading here then, that learning scales and arpeggios is a key part of getting to really “know” the instrument. That takes me back to my other post in a way - how do you go about memorising the scales? As I said I struggle to go from page to memory, so just playing scales from a book seems to be a waste of time to some degree, I need to find a way to really learn them, but I’m not really sure where to start. I should also point out, I’m only an amateur player, so don’t have hours a day to spend doing it, but I do want to get better and understand more and more that the scales and arpeggios are a key part of that. I just haven’t figured out how to unlock them for me yet! I saw Buddy Baker get a mention above, I do have a copy of that, so maybe that would be a good idea to take another look at but I still need to find a different approach to just reading them.
Question - what do you other players actually “think about” when learning scales? Are you thinking the note names as you play? Thinking about the pattern of the scale? Visualising the notes on a stave? Eventually I presume it becomes fairly subconscious, but presumably when setting out there’s more of a conscious thought process, I’d be interested to hear what people do!
Thanks
Paul
- GGJazz
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Jul 30, 2022
Hi Folks.
In my opinion , working on scales is very important , first for the instrument' technique , as well for the ability to play music in a good smooth way . Scales show us a linear approach to the way the horn appears to be ( based on the overtones series , that are made of jumps between their tones ) .
I think that , as first step , an important thing is to memorize HOW a scale is constructed .
So , for example , the Major scale is 1T - 1T - 1/2T - 1T - 1T - 1T - 1/2 T . The Dominant 7th scale is 1T - 1T - 1/2T -1T - 1T - 1/2 T - 1T . Ans so on .
Also , one have to memorize the various keys signatures ( D major two sharps , Ab major four flats , etc ) .
Then , knowing these things above mentionated , one can start to play the scales by memory , slowly , with the help of his ears too . Of course , before that , one have to read the sheet for a while.
For a person that need to learn this topic from the beginning , I think may be good to start practicing Major scales and their relative Minor on 6th grade ( Cmajor / A minor ; F major / D minor, etc ) , one octave , up and down , all the keys.
Later , one can expand the range on two octaves , adding other scales as Minor melodic , Dominant 7th , Whole Tone , Chromatic , Diminished , etc .
To be really fluid on scales , I think that a very useful step is to play scale patterns , as CDEC DEFD etc ; or CEDF EGFA etc ; or triads on every grades , as CEGE DFAF , etc .
In my opinion , a musician should know scales ; if not , who else in the World have to know them ..?
Anyway , backing to OP , I think that knowing scales is not the main rule to learn Jazz improvisation.
If that were true , then everybody in the world would be able to play a very good improvisation at least in C major / A minor , being that ALL musicians know perfectly these two scales ...
A scale is a way to arrange tones between a note and his repetition one octave up ( or down) ; it is like a "map" , but one have to know how to build PHRASES with these series of notes , not just run over and over a scale .
Regards
Giancarlo
In my opinion , working on scales is very important , first for the instrument' technique , as well for the ability to play music in a good smooth way . Scales show us a linear approach to the way the horn appears to be ( based on the overtones series , that are made of jumps between their tones ) .
I think that , as first step , an important thing is to memorize HOW a scale is constructed .
So , for example , the Major scale is 1T - 1T - 1/2T - 1T - 1T - 1T - 1/2 T . The Dominant 7th scale is 1T - 1T - 1/2T -1T - 1T - 1/2 T - 1T . Ans so on .
Also , one have to memorize the various keys signatures ( D major two sharps , Ab major four flats , etc ) .
Then , knowing these things above mentionated , one can start to play the scales by memory , slowly , with the help of his ears too . Of course , before that , one have to read the sheet for a while.
For a person that need to learn this topic from the beginning , I think may be good to start practicing Major scales and their relative Minor on 6th grade ( Cmajor / A minor ; F major / D minor, etc ) , one octave , up and down , all the keys.
Later , one can expand the range on two octaves , adding other scales as Minor melodic , Dominant 7th , Whole Tone , Chromatic , Diminished , etc .
To be really fluid on scales , I think that a very useful step is to play scale patterns , as CDEC DEFD etc ; or CEDF EGFA etc ; or triads on every grades , as CEGE DFAF , etc .
In my opinion , a musician should know scales ; if not , who else in the World have to know them ..?
Anyway , backing to OP , I think that knowing scales is not the main rule to learn Jazz improvisation.
If that were true , then everybody in the world would be able to play a very good improvisation at least in C major / A minor , being that ALL musicians know perfectly these two scales ...
A scale is a way to arrange tones between a note and his repetition one octave up ( or down) ; it is like a "map" , but one have to know how to build PHRASES with these series of notes , not just run over and over a scale .
Regards
Giancarlo
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
A good one is the pentatonic scale in all keys. The interval pattern is 3223.
Play familiar melodies in all keys, using perfect pitch if you have it, or work it all out with whatever parts of your brain prove most useful.
Identify jazz licks you like and be able to play them in any key. Invent new licks. Memorize them and eventually be able to make up new ones on the fly. Play with different rhythmic patterns and do unpredictable stuff.
Play familiar melodies in all keys, using perfect pitch if you have it, or work it all out with whatever parts of your brain prove most useful.
Identify jazz licks you like and be able to play them in any key. Invent new licks. Memorize them and eventually be able to make up new ones on the fly. Play with different rhythmic patterns and do unpredictable stuff.
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
Observing myself...the maintenance of good classical playing, jazz soloing/playing, and other styles/aspects of trombone playing seems to dependent on whether or not I've been practicing scales or not.
Lack of scale practice = lack of good trombone technique.
Lack of scale practice = lack of incorporating 'good ears' to work hand-in-hand with the mental/theoretical aspects of jazz soloing.
It's hard to beat the good old scale routine of taking any Major scale, and running up and down an octave starting on each subsequent scale tone and then end that scale by playing the Major arpeggio down two octaves to where you began.
Starting on all 11 chord tones; pick the new starting note based on the circle of 5ths.
(ie: scale order: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, etc. all the way back to F)
And, doing this routine with minor scales as well.
With a metronome.
Articulations, different octave starting notes, speed, dynamics, etc. etc. can all be varied.
Lack of scale practice = lack of good trombone technique.
Lack of scale practice = lack of incorporating 'good ears' to work hand-in-hand with the mental/theoretical aspects of jazz soloing.
It's hard to beat the good old scale routine of taking any Major scale, and running up and down an octave starting on each subsequent scale tone and then end that scale by playing the Major arpeggio down two octaves to where you began.
Starting on all 11 chord tones; pick the new starting note based on the circle of 5ths.
(ie: scale order: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, etc. all the way back to F)
And, doing this routine with minor scales as well.
With a metronome.
Articulations, different octave starting notes, speed, dynamics, etc. etc. can all be varied.