Courtois Creation Series Florida Trombone

norbie2018 · by **norbie2018** » 2024-12-23 10:36 p.m.

Anyone play one of these or know more about it?

Thanks,

Michael

timbone · by **timbone** » 2024-12-23 11:28 p.m.

Yes, I played one at itf this past year. I thought it was an excellent blow. Designed by Joel Viasse who is principal in the Florida orchestra and a beast player. It features the star valve concept, Icon valve, and cut bell. You can call buffet crampon in Florida to find out where to find one to try, or go there.

timbone · by **timbone** » 2024-12-24 12:08 a.m.

One thing I forgot to add, the Florida model is a cut bell but rather than a screw bell, it has a patented bayonet mount like a camera lens. Pop it in and twist to lock. German engineering.

Druidman · by **Druidman** » 2024-12-24 1:31 a.m.

Someone posted about it briefly on the forum some months ago that it played great. I'd love to see more courtois trombones around, but hard to compete with the boutique makers

timbone · by **timbone** » 2024-12-26 9:46 p.m.

Yes, having custom manufactures makes it hard to sell "outfits". The quality is as good or maybe better based on your view of German metals. I for one, am not in favor of removable lead pipes. The other problem with dealers is for them to make margin, so think about your European manufacturing and their costs. It's like cars. You can buy American and have a nice car, but you can buy German French, and Italian and have a well engineered product that is very nice.

pfrancis · by **pfrancis** » 2024-12-28 9:05 a.m.

Almost definitely the easiest to play large tenor I have ever played. VERY responsive and takes little to no managing/“minding” of how to articulate/change registers/play at dynamic extremes/etc.

I believe Baltimore Brass co. has one or two in stock. If they last as long as ATW I would imagine they will be available for testing there also.

norbie2018 · by **norbie2018** » 2024-12-28 10:30 a.m.

[quote="pfrancis"]Almost definitely the easiest to play large tenor I have ever played. VERY responsive and takes little to no managing/“minding” of how to articulate/change registers/play at dynamic extremes/etc.

I believe Baltimore Brass co. has one or two in stock. If they last as long as ATW I would imagine they will be available for testing there also.[/quote]

According to a site trip I talked to it has a dual bore 547/562 slide. Do you know if that's accurate?

Druidman · by **Druidman** » 2024-12-29 10:43 a.m.

[quote="norbie2018"]<QUOTE author="pfrancis" post_id="262581" time="1735394710" user_id="3551">
Almost definitely the easiest to play large tenor I have ever played. VERY responsive and takes little to no managing/“minding” of how to articulate/change registers/play at dynamic extremes/etc.

I believe Baltimore Brass co. has one or two in stock. If they last as long as ATW I would imagine they will be available for testing there also.[/quote]

According to a site trip I talked to it has a dual bore 547/562 slide. Do you know if that's accurate?
</QUOTE>

I remember seeing it somewhere that it was. Courtois website doesn't state anything though

timbone · by **timbone** » 2024-12-29 11:39 p.m.

The dual bore slides were older design and nickel. I don't believe there was a factory 47/62 slide made. I could be wrong. Steve Davis's horn is like a 554. Bore or something. That is before Michael besquet started modernizing the ranges.

pfrancis · 2025-01-02 9:40 a.m.

Just measured a Creation, it is in indeed .562 on the lower leg. I am shocked. I don’t typically like dual bore let alone .547-.562”. My feelings on how the horn plays are unchanged, one of the easiest to play I all registers I have tried. The slide is yellow brass with nickel over sleeves, yellow crook.

Also, unrelated to literally everything else discussed here - fairly certain Steve Davis plays a medium bore (.522/.525 whichever was being made 25+ years ago when he switched to his Courtois)

norbie2018 · by **norbie2018** » 2025-01-06 2:30 p.m.

Thanks for all the info thus far. Anyone else?

pfrancis · by **pfrancis** » 2025-02-01 4:36 p.m.

Well, fairly certain leaves room for being wrong:

[quote="Bach5G"]I sent Steve an email and he has replied:

“My horn is an Antoine Courtois model 155 large bore (large shank) trombone 8 1/2” bell.”[/quote]

Baltimore Brass co. now has a couple of creation models in stock, perhaps a gold and yellow variant.

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2025-02-02 2:19 a.m.

I tried the Creation Florida at NAMM. I liked it a lot, it was an easy player with a very nice sound. Definitely didn't feel like a big dual bore to me. I did like the Creation Paris a bit more, but they were both solid.

BassBoneFL · by **BassBoneFL** » 2025-02-02 8:45 a.m.

I've been sitting one chair away from the horn and its designer since the prototype arrived about 2yrs ago. Joel sounds fantastic on it and all our subs/extras who've tried it have liked it. Mike Zion, the principal in Naples Phil just bought one.

pfrancis · by **pfrancis** » 2025-02-02 8:53 a.m.

This is the only dual bore (.547-.562) I have ever come across that doesn’t lean bass trombone or euphonium in feel/sound. In fact it feels very much more like a smaller easier instrument than the specs suggest. Honestly if it said Shires or Edwards on the bell I think it would be smash hit in the states. That said, it doesn’t and most people will probably look past it as they too often shop with only their eyes.

timbone · by **timbone** » 2025-02-05 8:10 p.m.

To answer pfrancis- Steve Davis got that horn while studying with Jackie McClean at hart, it was in a bunch of horns that Jackie picked up at sols music in NYC. Jackie said "sol, do you have a horn for Stevie, and he handed him that Courtois, he played a few notes and Jackie said it sounded like butter". This is directly from Steve. And it is the only horn he has played in his career. .551 bore I believe and plays a marcinkewitz 5 mouthpiece. What a sound!

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Courtois Creation Series Florida Trombone