Bass Trombones
- TBEnthusiast
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Dec 11, 2024
Good day, I am just getting back to playing trombone again after taking a substantial amount of time off. The issue I am having is I am being asked to play Bass Trombone quite a bit. Now I am currently playing the parts on my 42BO with a 2G mouthpiece but its a little difficult to always pull off. I have always looked at BTB as its own entity so I have never spent much time on the particulars of playing one.
My plan is to pick one up but of course the options seems like they are endless. I am working through as many posts as I can, but being new on this forum I still can't search it well. I was initially going to try to find a used horn like a Yamaha or maybe even a Bach 50, but the prices seem well high. I did find a Shires Q series new that seemed like a good deal but I am not sure of the Thayer longevity. And I don't know the Shires at all being the last time I bought a horn they weren't even a company. I guess my question is should I find a used horn and just practice my butt off or is the price of new worth it? Also is the shires Q series even a good horn, as the top of the line is out of my budget! Also what are some of the go to study books for BTB?
Thanks in advance.
Tony
My plan is to pick one up but of course the options seems like they are endless. I am working through as many posts as I can, but being new on this forum I still can't search it well. I was initially going to try to find a used horn like a Yamaha or maybe even a Bach 50, but the prices seem well high. I did find a Shires Q series new that seemed like a good deal but I am not sure of the Thayer longevity. And I don't know the Shires at all being the last time I bought a horn they weren't even a company. I guess my question is should I find a used horn and just practice my butt off or is the price of new worth it? Also is the shires Q series even a good horn, as the top of the line is out of my budget! Also what are some of the go to study books for BTB?
Thanks in advance.
Tony
- sirisobhakya
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
Every Shires Q I have tried (3-4) are good horns and I like them. The same cannot be said for Shires Customs I have tried… (4-5 horns)
I like those with rotors more than those with Thayer, though.
I like those with rotors more than those with Thayer, though.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
Welcome back to playing!
And welcome to the dark side.
I've tried one Shires Q bass trombone, a gold brass bell axial flow valve example. Excellent instrument to my surprise, considering I did not like the Getzen Custom series bass (still loving my Eterna, my personal recommendation BTW). I haven't had a chance to try a custom Shires, though. (I should have bought a mouthpiece I tested with it but that's another story...)
Basses are almost always going to be more expensive than their given brand's respective large tenor, sometimes by a good amount. Budgeting is important, but if you scour the webs and are patient, you'll find some deals, which leads to...
There's nothing wrong with buying used. If you don't like it, you can move it for (roughly) what you paid. Only buy new if you are able to test play and truly love the horn.
You can still use the 2G you have, but depending on the rep you're playing and your facial structure, you might benefit from playing a larger mouthpiece as well. Just going up one size to a 1½G can do wonders for opening up all the registers.
Good luck!
And welcome to the dark side.
I've tried one Shires Q bass trombone, a gold brass bell axial flow valve example. Excellent instrument to my surprise, considering I did not like the Getzen Custom series bass (still loving my Eterna, my personal recommendation BTW). I haven't had a chance to try a custom Shires, though. (I should have bought a mouthpiece I tested with it but that's another story...)
Basses are almost always going to be more expensive than their given brand's respective large tenor, sometimes by a good amount. Budgeting is important, but if you scour the webs and are patient, you'll find some deals, which leads to...
There's nothing wrong with buying used. If you don't like it, you can move it for (roughly) what you paid. Only buy new if you are able to test play and truly love the horn.
You can still use the 2G you have, but depending on the rep you're playing and your facial structure, you might benefit from playing a larger mouthpiece as well. Just going up one size to a 1½G can do wonders for opening up all the registers.
Good luck!
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
How low are the notes you are being asked to play? Would a single valve bass work? They definitely can be a good gateway instrument until you find a good two valve bass. The Shires Q series also has a rotary valve option, which are IMHO easier to maintain than the Axial Flow style valves, and also a significant price reduction.
FYI, if you are in the U.S., the brass exchange currently has both a used Holton TR185 Single Valve bass and a used TR181 Independent bass, currently listed at around $2700 USD.
FYI, if you are in the U.S., the brass exchange currently has both a used Holton TR185 Single Valve bass and a used TR181 Independent bass, currently listed at around $2700 USD.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've got two good used bass bones for sale. Conn 83h and a custom Conn71h w/ 2 valves and a Bach bell. <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=38327">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=38327</LINK_TEXT>
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
A lot of music for bass trombone can be played with a single. What if you bought a good single and, if you are bit by the bug, then go for a double? OTOH, there are lots of good, used singles and doubles out there. (I’m sure tbonesullivan and hyperbolica would love to help you out!)
I’d suggest something middle-of-the-road to start with, a good, basic set-up: an all-yellow brass instrument or an instrument with a gold or red brass bell and a nickel slide. (A lot of trombones fall into those two basic mixtures of alloys. After that, it’s mostly secret proprietary manufacturing stuff: tapers, gauges, temperatures, etc. Unless you REALLY want to become a bass ‘bone nerd.)
Almost any Bach, Conn, Holton will do. If you think you might be playing more jazz, then you might want to consider a King 6B or 7B. The Shires professional and Q series are excellent, as are Getzen and Edwards horns. Getzen and Edwards tend to create a very big, wide sound—they’re built a little differently. It’s neither good nor bad, just different. If you are in Europe, you might consider Rath, Courtois, Smelzer, or Kuhnl u. Hoyer.
I’d suggest a slightly larger mouthpiece. Many people have played their entire professional (and amateur) careers on a 1 1/2G.
Once you start playing, the most important things are musicality and use of air. It takes a lot more air (wind) to play bass than tenor, especially when playing musically. Work to maximize your useable lung capacity.
Most importantly, be mindful of how you sound. Any goombah can play the trombone, but if we’re mindful of our instrument and our multifaceted role, the bass trombone can be a beautiful instrument. Have fun!
I’d suggest something middle-of-the-road to start with, a good, basic set-up: an all-yellow brass instrument or an instrument with a gold or red brass bell and a nickel slide. (A lot of trombones fall into those two basic mixtures of alloys. After that, it’s mostly secret proprietary manufacturing stuff: tapers, gauges, temperatures, etc. Unless you REALLY want to become a bass ‘bone nerd.)
Almost any Bach, Conn, Holton will do. If you think you might be playing more jazz, then you might want to consider a King 6B or 7B. The Shires professional and Q series are excellent, as are Getzen and Edwards horns. Getzen and Edwards tend to create a very big, wide sound—they’re built a little differently. It’s neither good nor bad, just different. If you are in Europe, you might consider Rath, Courtois, Smelzer, or Kuhnl u. Hoyer.
I’d suggest a slightly larger mouthpiece. Many people have played their entire professional (and amateur) careers on a 1 1/2G.
Once you start playing, the most important things are musicality and use of air. It takes a lot more air (wind) to play bass than tenor, especially when playing musically. Work to maximize your useable lung capacity.
Most importantly, be mindful of how you sound. Any goombah can play the trombone, but if we’re mindful of our instrument and our multifaceted role, the bass trombone can be a beautiful instrument. Have fun!
- vetsurginc
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Jun 29, 2019
Consider a large tenor/0.547 with F-loop. You can do a lot, especially jazz,, with less air: fill the horn, good sound, start the note on time. I use a bass for symphonic applications, but my big tenor for jazz. When you get your air back, you can advance to a full bass. Also consider the newer Getzen's. Really good horns IMHO.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
[quote="vetsurginc"]Consider a large tenor/0.547 with F-loop. You can do a lot, especially jazz,, with less air: fill the horn, good sound, start the note on time. I use a bass for symphonic applications, but my big tenor for jazz. When you get your air back, you can advance to a full bass. Also consider the newer Getzen's. Really good horns IMHO.[/quote]
OP has stated they have a Bach 42BO and a 2G mouthpiece, and they are specifically looking for a bass. It could very well be they are being asked to play bass in multiple ensembles, not just jazz. Then again, if they are playing period jazz, the answer could be a different large tenor with a better valve than the undersized Bach rotor.
OP has stated they have a Bach 42BO and a 2G mouthpiece, and they are specifically looking for a bass. It could very well be they are being asked to play bass in multiple ensembles, not just jazz. Then again, if they are playing period jazz, the answer could be a different large tenor with a better valve than the undersized Bach rotor.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Unless you need a second valve for bass trombone, consider a Yamaha YBL-421G (single valve) bass.
Labeled "intermediate" but it's full professional quality, just has one valve (that operates very smoothly).
Works fine with a Yamaha 58 or 59 mouthpiece.
Often available used at a very reasonable price.
If you decide to move on, you can probably re-sell for what you paid for it.
Good luck!
Labeled "intermediate" but it's full professional quality, just has one valve (that operates very smoothly).
Works fine with a Yamaha 58 or 59 mouthpiece.
Often available used at a very reasonable price.
If you decide to move on, you can probably re-sell for what you paid for it.
Good luck!
- SwissTbone
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think we need a little more context in order to give you good recommendations. What styles are you playing? How low does your repertoire go? What level do you have / want to achieve? Do you have an idea on how you want to sound? Etc.
- TBEnthusiast
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Dec 11, 2024
vetsurginc as Kevbach33 stated I am already playing a .547 horn. SwissTbone, at the moment I am playing in a community band, and tbone quartet. The quartet is where we play a wide range of literature from hymns, classical, jazz, and contemporary. I will be asked to step into other groups, and I would like to have bass as it seems like a fun horn to play. It is a part I have never really been asked to play, that's why I also asked for the specific Bass Bone study material others have found helpful. I am currently working through book one of Rochut during my practice sessions along with Buddy Bakers method. Usually I practice with a 5G on the Bach 42, but when playing in groups I I will use the 2G as parts demand.
- SwissTbone
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Ok. Thanks for the additional context.
In community band you'll probably be fine with a single valve bass 99% of time. But in trombone quartet you'll most definitely need a double valve bass. Most people go with an independent setup these days. The Shires Q Series with rotor valves is a very good horn and would probably fit your needs well. And it's budget friendly.
As for etudes: keep working on the stuff you are already doing. You'll probably want to play those Rochuts and other etudes an octave lower than written. But keep playing them also in the written octave as you don't want to loose your middle and high range.
Does that help?
In community band you'll probably be fine with a single valve bass 99% of time. But in trombone quartet you'll most definitely need a double valve bass. Most people go with an independent setup these days. The Shires Q Series with rotor valves is a very good horn and would probably fit your needs well. And it's budget friendly.
As for etudes: keep working on the stuff you are already doing. You'll probably want to play those Rochuts and other etudes an octave lower than written. But keep playing them also in the written octave as you don't want to loose your middle and high range.
Does that help?
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
There’s free downloadable Kopprasch on D Yeo’s site and some Blazhevich on IMSLP.
- Chronos91
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Jul 10, 2022
My first bass was a YBL-322 that had been modified with a drop in dependent D valve. It was really good, and I'd recommend one of those as a single if you find you don't need the low B much. My current bass is a Bach 50T3 that I've really enjoyed. I'm sure a used single valve Bach 50 with an Axial or Hagmann valve would be very good without breaking the bank. I haven't played a ton of Shires Q basses, but I'm sure that's a good route if you can buy used (and also try before you buy if you can). There are some good Shires Q horns for sure, I have a Q33 and a QAlessi alto that I love.
- jpwell
- Posts: 154
- Joined: May 11, 2018
Sounds like a familiar history. I started with my yammie 643 and did the mps swap. I have 3 bass tbones. King 6b was my first used it to learn the needed breathing. It took a while as an olde guy with fireman lungs. Second yammie 612 very nice Horn I bought used on here. Lastly Edwards b454-cr-e indy I bought off of here. I made the go big or go home mistake on mps. I settled on DE stuff that works great. I never had a muscle car to fix up so I got a modular horn instead lol. I really like 2 valves and use them both. I play in community bands, trombone choir, brass band, and jazz bands all on the bottom part. The Edwards does great. It plays way better than I do.
Hope that helps have fun.
Hope that helps have fun.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
I like the Grigoriev 24 Studies and the Blazhevich Tuba Studies.
Definitely get 2 valves if you can. I don't know why people are suggesting single valve. It's nearly impossible to play a good low B with one valve. Why make things harder on yourself? The Q Series is probably fine. If you're trying to save money, also maybe consider a used Holton. They're good instruments but tend to sell for less. I wouldn't attempt to buy a brand new bass trombone just to learn on. You can find something much cheaper used.
Maybe try a bigger mouthpiece too.
Definitely get 2 valves if you can. I don't know why people are suggesting single valve. It's nearly impossible to play a good low B with one valve. Why make things harder on yourself? The Q Series is probably fine. If you're trying to save money, also maybe consider a used Holton. They're good instruments but tend to sell for less. I wouldn't attempt to buy a brand new bass trombone just to learn on. You can find something much cheaper used.
Maybe try a bigger mouthpiece too.
- TBEnthusiast
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Dec 11, 2024
Let me say I have been a part of more than a few online forums and you guys are the best. I knew posting this pretty basic and I am sure has been asked before question that I may get completely roasted. You guys have been kind and very helpful with my requests and all of the answers have been informative and well thought out. Please don't stop adding to this, I just wanted to add my appreciation to the group and thread.
Tony
Tony
- sf105
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
The hard part on this forum is to stop the flood of suggestions. <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Someone just posted a Conn 62H (modern horn) with dependent valves on the classifieds. Looks like a pretty good deal.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott