Why is there so little instrument-focused "DIY" content out there for brass?

davdud101 · by **davdud101** » 2025-01-04 1:59 p.m.

I don't know if it's just me, but when it comes to doing modifications, repairs, and refinishing, it seems very hard to find information (especially videos) demonstrating or explaining how to do things if someone wants to learn and experiment at home without spend tens of thousands on school or classes.

For example, it took me some digging to find ~~[url=https://youtu.be/emHUVL6zyfQ?si=r1yRMwyLFfLG2sXN]~~a video demonstrating pulling a trombone leadpipe, and that's as far as my search will bring me. I'm DEAD certain there must be many many more videos out there, considering Youtube sees 500 hours of new content per minute, but Youtube also hides everything from you, and all the search engines use Google or just have their own poor indexing.

Youtube's search algorithm has gotten absolutely horrible in the past several years, to the point that you basically have to "manually" train your own algorithm to help guide you toward more niche/specific content. I've had luck in adjacent categories like brass refinishing for crafts, general repair content for brass, etc., but it's tough to find specific information.

Anyway, rant aside... what do we recommend around here? Are there some playlists or content aggregates out there where DIY modders can learn some techniques that techs use?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2025-01-04 2:04 p.m.

You're talking about a pretty small amount of people that want to do it on their own, and haven't gone the repair tech route.

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2025-01-04 2:24 p.m.

It's not repair content, but there is a nice video about properly cleaning a slide:

<YOUTUBE id="0-5qYuIlrh0">~~[media]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-5qYuIlrh0</YOUTUBE>

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2025-01-04 2:26 p.m.

I definitely would like to see more info about doing at least low-technical skill repairs on a trombone.

I also have developed a bit of a pet peeve when I do send in a horn for a professional cleaning. I have to specify to leave the trombone completely clean and dry when they give it back. No lube. No alcohol. Nothing. Way too often some "helpful" tech pre-lubes up the slide and this prevents me from seeing how well they actually cleaned it, and can hide imperfections in the alignment (and other issues).

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-04 3:41 p.m.

I understand your frustration because I am in the same boat. It reminds me of a similar situation 50 years ago when I was looking for information on building guitars. There was literally nothing available. I looked for years. People that were in the business would not reveal their secrets. Finally in 1975 a book was published on the subject and that got me started. Over the next few years other books came out and then with the internet a flood gate was opened. Now, people can build really nice first guitars using YouTube university and there are also people with online and face to face courses.

Brass instrument building/repair still seems to be stuck in the master/apprentice approach and the door is not easy to get into. Of course there are the various schools but they require a long term commitment.

I’m sure you’ve seen the YouTube videos by Wes Lee and The Brass and Woodwind Shop. There are a few other less prolific YouTubers. But not much else sadly. I would be interested in a link to the video on pulling the lead pipe. If we share the few resources that we find we can probably fill in the rest with trial and error.

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-04 3:49 p.m.

I’m preparing myself now to tackle my first slide disassembly and repair. And just found a useful video on this subject by Dan Oberloh. Here is a link:

~~[url]~~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97-7VAbz5c

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2025-01-04 4:01 p.m.

For DiY learning, hang around the Frankentuba folks, they are more adventurous than the other brasses.

Cheers,

Andy

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-04 4:23 p.m.

I've been doing a lot of my own minor repair, and some more major things (like cutting my old Eb tuba down from A=435 to A=440) for decades. First, a lot of what you're talking about involves genuine skills -- and you can't get the skills from watching videos. You need to experiment and practice -- and mess up a few things. Being able to do something isn't at all the the same thing as knowing how to do it (I.e., how it's done). So if you want to go in that direction, buy some old junker instruments from shopgoodwill.com, and start learning the tools and skills you'll need -- before you decide to apply them to (say) your $12,000 tuba.

That said, there are a number of good videos on Youtube -- but these won't usually show up if you're just Googling the web. You have to search for them on Youtube. As an example, Jeff Funderburk has several excellent Youtube videos about such things as cleaning and adjusting rotary valves, Aiden Ritchie has one on, removing/cleaning/assembling a 3B/F valve, and one on diagnosing valve problems, there's one by Holton on rotary valve bearing repair, various ones on aligning rotary valves, etc., etc.

Then get yourself copies of the Allied catalog (now digital, last time I looked), and Ferree's. Not only do these have lots of stuff about parts and tools in them, but they include descriptions of some techniques and how to make or use some special tools. In addition there are books like the "Band Instrument Repairing Manual" by Erick Brand, which contains a wealth of information. You can get it on Amazon for $102 hardcover, $73.11 paperback, or $4,995 for the spiral bound version -- which is what I have. Hey, wait a minute? You interested in buying my copy? Maybe we could work a deal. Oh, wait ... Ferree's seems to have it for $18.65. Of course they also have The Ferree's Repair Manual for $40.60. You really do need to get the Ferree's catalog.

Finally, at least some professional techs are great about answering questions about repair on forums like this. Even more so on TubaForum.net. I've learned a lot from those guys, and they've been very helpful in some specific circumstances.

Help is available. Just go get it. :)

davdud101 · by **davdud101** » 2025-01-05 7:50 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]You're talking about a pretty small amount of people that want to do it on their own, and haven't gone the repair tech route.[/quote]

I can't argue with you on that. The general DIY space is huge, but brass musicians wanting to repair/mod stuff AND have the tools to do it is probably puuuny.

[quote="AndrewMeronek"]I definitely would like to see more info about doing at least low-technical skill repairs on a trombone.[/quote]

Starting to think of making a playlist or aggregate of links for people to easily find information. Everything including maintenance, repairs, refinishing, etc.

[quote="BarryDaniels"]I’m sure you’ve seen the YouTube videos by Wes Lee and The Brass and Woodwind Shop. There are a few other less prolific YouTubers. But not much else sadly. I would be interested in a link to the video on pulling the lead pipe. If we share the few resources that we find we can probably fill in the rest with trial and error.[/quote]

Great comment, Barry. I learned everything I know about woodworking and guitar building from Youtube, it's so accessible!

Here's the link to the video. Very good demonstration, I'll have to try this myself on a Yamaha 354 ;)

<YOUTUBE id="emHUVL6zyfQ">https://youtu.be/emHUVL6zyfQ?si=b48VeyipRYKFsun_</YOUTUBE>

davdud101 · by **davdud101** » 2025-01-05 7:55 p.m.

@ghmerrill Solid stuff!! Lots of good info. I peeked at those books and they're kinda dry, but definitely will make for good resources for guys like me. I know videos aren't the best method, but oftentimes it's easier to understand exactly what they're doing, how long to do something, tips on how to hold a part etc.. by watching a master do it. Not always as easy to get to just from reading :)

That said, I'm starting to take the risks... buying cheap horns, gathering a stable of tools and just trying things out. Looking forward to see how it all goes.

I find that without an *extremely* refined Youtube search, in addition to some algorithm training, I can't get out of the loop of being recommended the same videos and channels over and over, or being shown 2-3 results that a relevant, followed by a bunch of general brass or instrument-related videos. I feel like there's a lot more below the surface.

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-05 9:00 p.m.

[quote="davdud101"]I know videos aren't the best method, but oftentimes it's easier to understand exactly what they're doing, how long to do something, tips on how to hold a part etc.. by watching a master do it. Not always as easy to get to just from reading :)[/quote]
Yes, definitely. It's also sometimes critical to have good images of the actual parts rather than descriptions or sketches.

I find that without an *extremely* refined Youtube search, ...

It is sometimes helpful to use Google Advanced Search on a specific site (such as YouTube.com) rather than going to that site and using whatever search engine it uses, however it has that search engine configured. Bring up the advanced search page and you can specify what domain to search along with being very specific about the search parameters/constraints.

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-06 9:09 a.m.

That was a very useful video on pulling leadpipes. He made it look easy. It must have been a new horn because there was no corrosion.

One source of some useful information can be found on Substack. Search for “The Best Ever Brass Instrument Makers Podcast". Two tuba makers have over 20 podcasts discussing various topics. The podcast on bending tubes had some good detailed information.

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-06 9:22 a.m.

[quote="BarryDaniels"]That was a very useful video on pulling leadpipes. He made it look easy. It must have been a new horn because there was no corrosion.[/quote]
I was present and helping out when the lead pipe on my horn was pulled -- on a new horn I'd received only a couple of days previously. And it was still pretty exciting and dicey. I don't think this is a realistic candidate for a DIY at home project. It might be fun to try on an old junker horn, if you acquire the right tools -- but then I think the odds of just destroying the slide go up "exponentially" (as it's popular to say nowadays).

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-06 10:26 a.m.

I understand the risk. I certainly won’t be pulling the pipe on my daily player. But I have several junkers awaiting experimentation.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2025-01-06 11:23 a.m.

If I were a tech, I'd be disinclined to post a lot of DIY content because it's a sure bet someone would try to do it themselves and utterly destroy their horn - and then bury me with negative social media posts and bad online reviews.

It's also a lot of time and effort to produce videos of that sort. You can't just set up a camera, record, and then post; the result would most likely be yet another crappy YouTube video.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2025-01-06 1:00 p.m.

But that might also generate more work for you!!

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2025-01-06 5:44 p.m.

There's a world of difference between the skills and equipment needed to replace a distributor in a car and replacing a slide tube or removing a dent from somewhere. I'm trying to think of what, if any repairs /mods on a brass instrument I would be comfortable doing. Maybe installing a new minibal linkage to replace the crappy stock Bach one on my 36 B?

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-06 5:49 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]I'm trying to think of what, if any repairs /mods on a brass instrument I would be comfortable doing.[/quote]
We all have our own comfort zones -- and willingness to embark on acquiring new and complex skill sets. There's also the matter of risk vs. reward. I wouldn't have been doing a lot of the stuff I did on a $5,000 instrument. But on a $200 or $500 instrument. Yeah, I'll easily tolerate that degree of risk.

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2025-01-06 6:25 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]There's a world of difference between the skills and equipment needed to replace a distributor in a car and replacing a slide tube or removing a dent from somewhere. I'm trying to think of what, if any repairs /mods on a brass instrument I would be comfortable doing. Maybe installing a new minibal linkage to replace the crappy stock Bach one on my 36 B?[/quote]
Being proficient in both…. Making couple of 36/42 flares convertible and interchangeable with neckpipes and valve sections was “easier” than replacing the water pump and converting my old Ford 289 to a new pertronix distributor. If you throw in the radiator change that I also did, it also took 1/10 the amount of time.

But the engine is by all appearances stock and looks like factory… the horns not so much. They look fine from 4’ away, but any closer and it is obvious that I don’t like to buff and don’t do it to clean up the job that thoroughly. I could probably up my cosmetic game on the horns, but I don’t particularly care about that and would rather spend my time doing more fun things.

Cheers,

Andy

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-06 6:31 p.m.

[quote="elmsandr"]I could probably up my cosmetic game on the horns, but I don’t particularly care about that and would rather spend my time doing more fun things.[/quote]
In general, I'm with you on that. You should see my 1974 2-cyl Yanmar gray-market tractor. :|

dbwhitaker · by **dbwhitaker** » 2025-01-07 11:06 a.m.

Beyond experience and expertise the videos linked above reveal a lot of specialized tools that are used for brass repair. How many DIYers are going to have access to a mandrel that would be suitable for pulling a lead pipe? Who is going to have the tools used in the slide repair video? The J Landress video on repairing a crushed bell relies on a lot of equipment that looks very expensive.

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-07 11:29 a.m.

[quote="dbwhitaker"]How many DIYers are going to have access to a mandrel that would be suitable for pulling a lead pipe?[/quote]

Not to mention what you need to actually use that mandrel (bench, vise, other hand tools, torch). Even simple things you may not think of initially. Do you really want to (or in fact can you) use that little butane torch you've got in order to pull that lead pipe? I've used a small hobby butane torch for a number of simple brass quick fix-it jobs. But for anything even half-way serious I use the air/acetylene outfit. It just works a lot better (or more often, works when the butane torch just doesn't come close to having what it takes).

Yes, these specialized tools are typically quite expensive. In addition, just having the expensive tool doesn't do anything for you. It's really not a case of "I just need to get this mandrel and I'll get that lead pipe out of there with no problem." :lol: If you're trying that with the little butane torch you bought at Lowes, ... good luck.

But you CAN get these tools if you want -- I.e., they ARE available. And sometimes it may be worth doing that, especially if part of your motivation is just to learn and play with some areas of brass repair. I got a really special tool from Ferree's for repairing bushings for rotary valve spindles -- just because I have this old oval euph that had a mildly damaged 2nd (rotary) valve. Was it worth it in terms of the repair? No. Was it worth it just for the fun/learning/experience? Yeah, it sure was. 8-) At some point I need to refurbish the other valves and then ... drum roll ... take on the task of working on the "clockwork" linkages to tighten them up. And that's going to be a major adventure. :roll: .

There's nothing wrong with "hobby brass-teching" as long as you know it's hobby brass-teching. And it can often be effective for you if you don't overreach as you learn. But for some things, in terms of supplies, ya gotta pay to play. And if you're just looking for a one-time repair, it's almost certainly better to take it to a good local pro tech.

On the other end of the spectrum, I know a lot of people who wouldn't think of replacing their own rotary valve bumpers. For them, it's just worth it to have someone else do it.

Chazzer69 · by **Chazzer69** » 2025-01-07 12:07 p.m.

[quote="ghmerrill"]

Then get yourself copies of the Allied catalog (now digital, last time I looked)...
[/quote]

Curious as to how to acquire a copy since they have it locked down to "professional band instrument repair technicians or retail music stores"?

I realize they are wholesale and don't want amateurs/hobbyists ordering piecemeal from them, and I totally get that. But, it would be really nice to have one for reference to see if parts are available for potential projects that I might ask my tech to do.

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-07 2:42 p.m.

[quote="Chazzer69"]<QUOTE author="ghmerrill" post_id="263255" time="1736025785" user_id="2941">

Then get yourself copies of the Allied catalog (now digital, last time I looked)...
[/quote]

Curious as to how to acquire a copy since they have it locked down to "professional band instrument repair technicians or retail music stores"?
</QUOTE>
I can't say for sure what might do the trick for you since I've had an Allied account for about 20 years and was able to satisfy their requirements at that time without any difficulty. I recall sending them an email asking what specifically they required as evidence for qualifying as a customer, and then provided that evidence. It appears they may have changed things a bit recently, but it's difficult to tell exactly what they mean and exactly what might satisfy their requirements nowadays. Membership in NAPBIRT used to work all by itself, and it might still work (e.g., if an Associate Membership in NAPBIRT would be acceptable). Otherwise, I seem to be grandfathered in, in some way.

In full disclosure, I've never bought anything from Allied, and their (printed) catalog, with separate price list, used to drive me nuts. But the catalog contains some really neat information and examples of tools and techniques. If they'd collect that and publish it separately they could probably make money on it, but that's not the Allied way.

You'll probably do just as well with Ferree's (unless there are some specific arcane parts that you need, and only Allied has them), and Ferree's abandoned any semblance of a medieval guild model some time ago. For "generic" parts (e.g., tubing, etc.), you can generally find these elsewhere if you look hard enough. And there are now companies (e.g., Instrument Innovations, M/K Drawing) that make some really nice -- if sometimes somewhat pricey -- parts for various horns and of various sorts.

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-07 3:03 p.m.

The fact that Allied limits their customer base makes me want to get in the door even more. I am considering getting a DBA and a state sales tax account just for this purpose.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2025-01-07 4:09 p.m.

[quote="BarryDaniels"]That was a very useful video on pulling leadpipes. He made it look easy. It must have been a new horn because there was no corrosion.

One source of some useful information can be found on Substack. Search for “The Best Ever Brass Instrument Makers Podcast". Two tuba makers have over 20 podcasts discussing various topics. The podcast on bending tubes had some good detailed information.[/quote]

I wasn't going to comment, but since you brought it up... I watched that video, and in my experience, leadpipes almost never come out that easily. I fear that hobbyists will watch that and think it's easy to pull a trombone leadpipe. It's not.

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-07 4:31 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]I fear that hobbyists will watch that and think it's easy to pull a trombone leadpipe. It's not.[/quote]
And the risk isn't so much that you destroy the old leadpipe (which you probably don't care about anyway), but that you destroy the slide (or at least that one inner, if not more).

marccromme · by **marccromme** » 2025-01-07 4:54 p.m.

[quote="ghmerrill"]In general, I'm with you on that. You should see my 1974 2-cyl Yanmar gray-market tractor. :|[/quote]

Noe we are talking some interesting stuff. .. :pant: does it have a frontloader? :biggrin: pictures, please?

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-07 5:53 p.m.

No frontloader. And it's nothing to look at. I got it from some guy near Fayetteville in fairly rough shape and there were auction numbers on it. I've always suspected that it may have been brought back to Ft. Bragg from some deployment. It replaced my 1958 Massey Harris -- because my wife is the one who uses the tractor most and she had an old rotator cuff injury that took a beating from the mechanical steering on the M-H. The Yanmar also has mechanical steering (in fact I finally had to replace that last year), but it's easier for her to steer. For me, it's just really small, and not as stable as the old Massey. But the engine is simplicity itself and absolutely bullet proof.

BarryDaniels · by **BarryDaniels** » 2025-01-12 8:47 a.m.

I was looking at the Ferree’s website and it seems like they have added some content to their instructional pages. One big example is the page on trombone hand slide straightening has a lot more detail.

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text=" https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/pages/ ... 178c&_ss=r"> https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/pages/basic-slide-straightening?_pos=5&_sid=fd833178c&_ss=r</LINK_TEXT>

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2025-01-12 9:50 a.m.

Wow. This is great.

"All you can do is the best you can with whatever skill level you have."

So true. (Also, it's true that you need a certain amount of equipment -- that amateurs just don't have -- in order to tell when a tube is really straight and exactly where it's slightly bent. Even just the shipping on that will kill you nowadays.) I've watched my usual repair guy (about 50 years of experience) check my '47 Olds Standard slide for straightness and then do a "laying on of hands" of the sort described by Ferree's in just a few minutes -- completely fixing the slight drag in the slide. Then we just blabbed for about an hour before he went back to repadding the saxophone he'd been working on. I think he charged me $10 for that one. :)

Quick Links

Instruments

Marketplace