Mouthpiece for 1967 Elkhart Conn 88H
- msterling
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Dec 28, 2024
What do good players use with an Elkhart Conn 88H? I have had this horn since 1968. It came with a Remington which seems to work pretty well. A few years ago I bought a Bach 6 1/2 AL that was recommended. I don't really like it and it has the wrong taper so it wobbles without a wrap of Teflon tape. I'm not a pro player but I'm reasonably experienced. I typically play 1st part in a Community wind band and a Jazz Big Band. I just got a King 2B Silvertone to play in the Jazz Band. That's another subject.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The Remington was a popular mouthpiece for the 88H. It's more like a 5G than a 6½AL. I had a 5G with a Remington shank that I sold to an 88H owner who really liked it. The mouthpiece was a %G-R. Special order.
The older Schilke mouthpieces (long shank) will fit the 88H receiver. A 51 or 52 sized piece would work.
If money is less of an object, you can get a Doug Elliott setup with a Remington shank. Nice part is that you can swap out rims and cups to find something that you really like. To match a Bach 5G you would need a LT 101 rim, F cup, and F8R shank. The faddy crowd seem to prefer the XT series, although I found the LT series to be fine.
The older Schilke mouthpieces (long shank) will fit the 88H receiver. A 51 or 52 sized piece would work.
If money is less of an object, you can get a Doug Elliott setup with a Remington shank. Nice part is that you can swap out rims and cups to find something that you really like. To match a Bach 5G you would need a LT 101 rim, F cup, and F8R shank. The faddy crowd seem to prefer the XT series, although I found the LT series to be fine.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have a 68 88h. I didn't like the Remington, but it does have the correct taper. I played a 5g for a long time, but you'd have to find one with the Remington taper. Schilke 51 is also good, or Doug Elliott 102F or there abouts.
- Mr412
- Posts: 207
- Joined: May 20, 2022
They are pretty pricey right now, IMO. But when they weren't so much, I bought a Bach 4G with a Remington taper that I find works very well, producing a more mellow tone than the original 88H Remington mouthpiece that came with the horn.
I have a bass trombone slide on order from Hickeys that is supposed to fit the Elkhart 88H bell perfectly and it comes with three interchangeable lead pipes that will allow virtually any appropriate mouthpiece to connect correctly. Since I love my Elkhart 88H so much, I decided to "collect" alternate slides for it, instead of risking having the original lead pipe pulled. Even if a local tech did a superb job doing that, the horn would not be pristine original any longer. I know, for the price of that slide, I could buy a collection of custom-made mouthpieces that will fit the Remington taper. But I'm intrigued with playing bass 'bone "light" on it with say, a Bach 1.5G as well as conventional tenor on the original slide with the Bach 4G Remington taper mouthpiece.
Again, I know I could have just bought a vintage 70-something H or 60H Conn single-trigger bass for the same amount of money as the new slide is costing me. But I live in a condo now, where every square inch of space comes with a cost of opportunity, so one bell - with multiple slides seems like a good fit right now.
I have a bass trombone slide on order from Hickeys that is supposed to fit the Elkhart 88H bell perfectly and it comes with three interchangeable lead pipes that will allow virtually any appropriate mouthpiece to connect correctly. Since I love my Elkhart 88H so much, I decided to "collect" alternate slides for it, instead of risking having the original lead pipe pulled. Even if a local tech did a superb job doing that, the horn would not be pristine original any longer. I know, for the price of that slide, I could buy a collection of custom-made mouthpieces that will fit the Remington taper. But I'm intrigued with playing bass 'bone "light" on it with say, a Bach 1.5G as well as conventional tenor on the original slide with the Bach 4G Remington taper mouthpiece.
Again, I know I could have just bought a vintage 70-something H or 60H Conn single-trigger bass for the same amount of money as the new slide is costing me. But I live in a condo now, where every square inch of space comes with a cost of opportunity, so one bell - with multiple slides seems like a good fit right now.
- ssking2b
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Sep 29, 2018
I’m playing a 60’s vintage Giardinelli Symphony T with the Giardinelli standard taper. It plays great!!
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
[quote="Mr412"]I have a bass trombone slide on order from Hickeys that is supposed to fit the Elkhart 88H bell perfectly and it comes with three interchangeable lead pipes that will allow virtually any appropriate mouthpiece to connect correctly.[/quote]
I have a SL47/62 light slide from Conn as well to fit to an Abilene 8H bell that is awsome !
I had it only with the Standard leadpipe, but I have also the other leadpipes from a SL47/47 slide I also own... (I like the Marcellus pipe quite a lot, I should say...)
Mouthpiece with it? Best match : a plain Bach 5G or 4G... or some Doug Elliott equivalent... or a Marcellus, who knows? I never came accross to one...
I have a SL47/62 light slide from Conn as well to fit to an Abilene 8H bell that is awsome !
I had it only with the Standard leadpipe, but I have also the other leadpipes from a SL47/47 slide I also own... (I like the Marcellus pipe quite a lot, I should say...)
Mouthpiece with it? Best match : a plain Bach 5G or 4G... or some Doug Elliott equivalent... or a Marcellus, who knows? I never came accross to one...
- Mr412
- Posts: 207
- Joined: May 20, 2022
[quote="Slidennis"]I have a SL47/62 light slide from Conn as well to fit to an Abilene 8H bell that is awsome !
I had it only with the Standard leadpipe, but I have also the other leadpipes from a SL47/47 slide I also own... (I like the Marcellus pipe quite a lot, I should say...)
Mouthpiece with it? Best match : a plain Bach 5G or 4G... or some Doug Elliott equivalent... or a Marcellus, who knows? I never came accross to one...[/quote]
I considered that slide but went with the bass slide b/c I want to double my Elkie 88H bell for some light bass work. The SL47/62 slide is on my wish list. I'll get it this year some time. Glad to know you love it. That's good positive info for me in making the decision. :good:
I had it only with the Standard leadpipe, but I have also the other leadpipes from a SL47/47 slide I also own... (I like the Marcellus pipe quite a lot, I should say...)
Mouthpiece with it? Best match : a plain Bach 5G or 4G... or some Doug Elliott equivalent... or a Marcellus, who knows? I never came accross to one...[/quote]
I considered that slide but went with the bass slide b/c I want to double my Elkie 88H bell for some light bass work. The SL47/62 slide is on my wish list. I'll get it this year some time. Glad to know you love it. That's good positive info for me in making the decision. :good:
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
At one time it was popular for Conn 88H players to use a Schilke 51B. That worked well for Ralph Sauer, Gordon Cherry (Vanc. Symph. Principal) and many of his students who went on to some excellent orchestral careers.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Cmillar"]At one time it was popular for Conn 88H players to use a Schilke 51B. That worked well for Ralph Sauer, Gordon Cherry (Vanc. Symph. Principal) and many of his students who went on to some excellent orchestral careers.[/quote]
Don't know about Gordon Cherry, but Ralph Sauer did NOT use a Schilke 51B - his mouthpiece was, for years, a long-shank Schilke 51 that fits the 88H taper. That's a good choice for an Elkhart 88H.
I've tried the Schilke 51B - quite different than a 51 - and it's definitely not for me. (Though it apparently worked for Jay Friedman - but not on a Conn 88H!) To me, the 51B feels unbalanced.
I never got along with the Remington 5CL mouthpiece that came with my 88H. I think the biggest issue I had was its small (6.15mm / 0.242") Throat.
As others have noted, another good choice is a Doug Elliott setup - mine is a G8/Conn Shank, LT G Cup, LT 101 (or LT 102) Rim.
Good luck!
Don't know about Gordon Cherry, but Ralph Sauer did NOT use a Schilke 51B - his mouthpiece was, for years, a long-shank Schilke 51 that fits the 88H taper. That's a good choice for an Elkhart 88H.
I've tried the Schilke 51B - quite different than a 51 - and it's definitely not for me. (Though it apparently worked for Jay Friedman - but not on a Conn 88H!) To me, the 51B feels unbalanced.
I never got along with the Remington 5CL mouthpiece that came with my 88H. I think the biggest issue I had was its small (6.15mm / 0.242") Throat.
As others have noted, another good choice is a Doug Elliott setup - mine is a G8/Conn Shank, LT G Cup, LT 101 (or LT 102) Rim.
Good luck!
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
Gord Cherry was a 51B for sure, and every student of his had to play one as well. Anything else was... well, frowned upon.
I was a rebel and used a nice Bach 5G. It was an excellent combination.
Having got hold of a very nice 1974 Conn 88H that plays great, I have a Doug Elliott setup with his Conn shank. He also 'beefed up' the shank a bit so that it would fit securely in the receiver, because previous years show lots of 'non-Remington' shank wear and tear
I was a rebel and used a nice Bach 5G. It was an excellent combination.
Having got hold of a very nice 1974 Conn 88H that plays great, I have a Doug Elliott setup with his Conn shank. He also 'beefed up' the shank a bit so that it would fit securely in the receiver, because previous years show lots of 'non-Remington' shank wear and tear
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
Simple, whatever fits the player. There is a huge range of mouthpieces that will work with a horn, less that will be a good fit for the player. Start with a comfortable rim size and go from there. Next up would be, response, then ease of access to all registers, etc.
- SimmonsTrombone
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Jul 24, 2018
I too have a 67 88h that I bought in 68. Over the years I've played the original Remington, a Bach 6 1/2 AL with an 88h shank, and an Shilke 53 long shank recommended by Harry Maddox (Atlanta symphony). I now play one of Doug's setups with shanks to use the cup on the 88h, 6h and Olds 21.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Gordon Cherry played a 51, not a 51B. Likewise for many of his students.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- msterling
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Dec 28, 2024
Wow! Thanks for all of the great responses. I wish that I had found this board years ago. I will consider all of your suggestions as I am ready to try a different mouthpiece for the 88H.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
The older Schilke mouthpieces have a longer shank that fits the Elkhart Conns very well. The newer ones are made with a shank more like a Bach mouthpiece, since most large bore horns have that taper for the receiver. The 51, and 51C4 are both good choices (if they work for you). I also liked my Doug Elliott mouthpieces with a Conn shank when I was playing 88H's and 8H's. Most of the high-end mouthpiece companies will do a Conn shank for you, but you'll probably have to order it and wait a while. Lastly, the BrassArk has teamed up with Bob Reeves mouthpieces, and you can have a regular mouthpiece's shank shaved down to accept their sleeves (sort of like an adaptor). You can get different sleeves to fit different instruments. Good luck.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
I have a Doug Elliot setup that works perfectly because Doug offers the proper shank. Contact Doug.
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
Schilke 51 on the 88H for Gord Cherry and students ....that sounds more right....not the 51B. (it's been years since I was a student at UBC!)
No one has mentioned a Denis Wick 4AL as a good mouthpiece match for a Conn 88H.
That's the mouthpiece he designed while playing the horn with the LSO.
No one has mentioned a Denis Wick 4AL as a good mouthpiece match for a Conn 88H.
That's the mouthpiece he designed while playing the horn with the LSO.
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
[quote="msterling"]What do good players use with an Elkhart Conn 88H? I have had this horn since 1968. It came with a Remington which seems to work pretty well. A few years ago I bought a Bach 6 1/2 AL that was recommended. I don't really like it and it has the wrong taper so it wobbles without a wrap of Teflon tape. I'm not a pro player but I'm reasonably experienced. I typically play 1st part in a Community wind band and a Jazz Big Band. I just got a King 2B Silvertone to play in the Jazz Band. That's another subject.[/quote]
Another thought for you...as you mention you play a 2B.
Those are my horns as well: Conn88H and a King 2BSS
I use a setup from Doug Elliott. Same rim but with different underparts for each horn.
I use a LTN103 rim, F cup, and F8+Conn shank for the 88H horn.
For the King 2B: LTN103 rim, C+ (or D) cup, and C 2.5 shank. (*)
* Doug has worked hard at creating a shank that will work best with the duo-bore nature of the King 2B series of horns. He uses one himself when he plays his 2B.
Great system, because you can really just work with the one rim size and have the same feel on your face when switching back and forth.
Another thought for you...as you mention you play a 2B.
Those are my horns as well: Conn88H and a King 2BSS
I use a setup from Doug Elliott. Same rim but with different underparts for each horn.
I use a LTN103 rim, F cup, and F8+Conn shank for the 88H horn.
For the King 2B: LTN103 rim, C+ (or D) cup, and C 2.5 shank. (*)
* Doug has worked hard at creating a shank that will work best with the duo-bore nature of the King 2B series of horns. He uses one himself when he plays his 2B.
Great system, because you can really just work with the one rim size and have the same feel on your face when switching back and forth.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Cmillar"]Schilke 51 on the 88H for Gord Cherry and students ....that sounds more right....not the 51B.[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. This is what I had suspected. Almost no prominent orchestral players used the Schilke 51B, which was made for Jay Friedman's chops, trombone, and the hall that he played in.
Denis Wick has noted that he designed the 4AL (the original “A” model) for his own use, for a problematic concert hall. Not such a good match for other situations. One of the reasons that Wick (supposedly) developed the 4ABL, with a different backbore (and a shallower cup?), which may be a better general-purpose match for an 88H (though it does not have a "Remington" taper).
Thanks for the clarification. This is what I had suspected. Almost no prominent orchestral players used the Schilke 51B, which was made for Jay Friedman's chops, trombone, and the hall that he played in.
No one has mentioned a Denis Wick 4AL as a good mouthpiece match for a Conn 88H.
That's the mouthpiece he designed while playing the horn with the LSO.
Denis Wick has noted that he designed the 4AL (the original “A” model) for his own use, for a problematic concert hall. Not such a good match for other situations. One of the reasons that Wick (supposedly) developed the 4ABL, with a different backbore (and a shallower cup?), which may be a better general-purpose match for an 88H (though it does not have a "Remington" taper).
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="msterling"]It came with a Remington which seems to work pretty well.[/quote]
So use that.
So use that.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Couple of points:
Wick has 3 mouthpieces with approximately the same diameter cup: 4AL, 4ABL, and 4BL. They are listed from largest to smallest cup volume. Also, apertures get smaller as you go from one to the next.
I have seen several 88H's where a standard taper was forced in distorting the inside of he leadpipe. Depending on the previous life your 88H may have been distorted to take "normal" mouthpieces. These distorted leadpipes do not wobble when a standard large shank is inserted.
Personally, I like the idea of a newer slide with removable leadpipes and using the leadpipe that accepts "normal" taper mouthpieces.
Wick has 3 mouthpieces with approximately the same diameter cup: 4AL, 4ABL, and 4BL. They are listed from largest to smallest cup volume. Also, apertures get smaller as you go from one to the next.
I have seen several 88H's where a standard taper was forced in distorting the inside of he leadpipe. Depending on the previous life your 88H may have been distorted to take "normal" mouthpieces. These distorted leadpipes do not wobble when a standard large shank is inserted.
Personally, I like the idea of a newer slide with removable leadpipes and using the leadpipe that accepts "normal" taper mouthpieces.