Tuning Slide Sound Plate?
- DeCipherPositions
- Posts: 41
- Joined: May 31, 2023
I've only seen a few examples of these, but have never really understood what they do in terms of response and feel of the instrument. Has anyone had experience with these? What sound qualities do they add or take away from the instrument?
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
- NotSkilledHere
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Aug 07, 2024
those were done on some older models. Buescher comes to mind in particular. I think it was meant to be a more artistic take on a counterweight. I know BAC has made some in modern times at clients asking. I would be curious on the feel/response and effects this has too.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
Courtois had them on some models that are no longer made. AC410 (large tenor) and AC500 (bass) were examples. I played the latter in undergrad. Hard to say what the effect of the plate was since there's no comparison point. The horn overall was very heavy and played biiiiiiiig, and certainly that plate contributed to that.
- UATrombone
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sep 15, 2024
Best way to check the effects is to make 2 identical (OK, almost identical <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>) tuning slides and add such plate to one of them for direct comparison.
- NotSkilledHere
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Aug 07, 2024
[quote="UATrombone"]Best way to check the effects is to make 2 identical (OK, almost identical <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>) tuning slides and add such plate to one of them for direct comparison.[/quote]
even better, make 1 tuning slide and play the horn with it and then solder on the plate and then play with it in that state. so yo get the closest examination to "identical tuning slides"
even better, make 1 tuning slide and play the horn with it and then solder on the plate and then play with it in that state. so yo get the closest examination to "identical tuning slides"
- UATrombone
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sep 15, 2024
[quote="NotSkilledHere"]even better, make 1 tuning slide and play the horn with it and then solder on the plate and then play with it in that state. so yo get the closest examination to "identical tuning slides"[/quote]
It was my first thought but in this case you can't do continuous direct comparison (A-B-A-B....) because of time needed to solder/unsolder that plate...
It was my first thought but in this case you can't do continuous direct comparison (A-B-A-B....) because of time needed to solder/unsolder that plate...
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
Yet more interesting to me : brace or no brace on the tuning slide...
Yamaha was the first trombones I didn't see a brace on, then on my Conn 71H...
All the Rath's...
Lately, I had a tuning slide of a Conn 88H that was a bit tricky to put on the bell after I took it out, and I found this Conn 88H to be a bit stiff.
I wanted to keep the brace to put a counterweight on it if needed, so I just made a cut in the brace with a Dremel right in the middle of it... ...BANG, the small cut opened at once with a noise, and sure, tension was realeased !!! A big improvement in sound, livelier bell, and easier to pull back and forth... FWIW...
Yamaha was the first trombones I didn't see a brace on, then on my Conn 71H...
All the Rath's...
Lately, I had a tuning slide of a Conn 88H that was a bit tricky to put on the bell after I took it out, and I found this Conn 88H to be a bit stiff.
I wanted to keep the brace to put a counterweight on it if needed, so I just made a cut in the brace with a Dremel right in the middle of it... ...BANG, the small cut opened at once with a noise, and sure, tension was realeased !!! A big improvement in sound, livelier bell, and easier to pull back and forth... FWIW...
- heinzgries
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Slidennis"]Yet more interesting to me : brace or no brace on the tuning slide...
Yamaha was the first trombones I didn't see a brace on, then on my Conn 71H...
All the Rath's...
Lately, I had a tuning slide of a Conn 88H that was a bit tricky to put on the bell after I took it out, and I found this Conn 88H to be a bit stiff.
I wanted to keep the brace to put a counterweight on it if needed, so I just made a cut in the brace with a Dremel right in the middle of it... ...BANG, the small cut opened at once with a noise, and sure, tension was realeased !!! A big improvement in sound, livelier bell, and easier to pull back and forth... FWIW...[/quote]
For amusement, as I build and modify a few horns, when putting them back together I assemble the tuning slide without the cross brace. I do this knowing I can test it and feel it out and then add the cross brace back if I need or want it. I have not added back the cross brace to my 42, my 45, or my 50 based horns. It does somewhat negatively mess with the balance, so I will do something about that, but I’m going on 20 years of taking these things out and leaving them out.
Cheers,
Andy
Yamaha was the first trombones I didn't see a brace on, then on my Conn 71H...
All the Rath's...
Lately, I had a tuning slide of a Conn 88H that was a bit tricky to put on the bell after I took it out, and I found this Conn 88H to be a bit stiff.
I wanted to keep the brace to put a counterweight on it if needed, so I just made a cut in the brace with a Dremel right in the middle of it... ...BANG, the small cut opened at once with a noise, and sure, tension was realeased !!! A big improvement in sound, livelier bell, and easier to pull back and forth... FWIW...[/quote]
For amusement, as I build and modify a few horns, when putting them back together I assemble the tuning slide without the cross brace. I do this knowing I can test it and feel it out and then add the cross brace back if I need or want it. I have not added back the cross brace to my 42, my 45, or my 50 based horns. It does somewhat negatively mess with the balance, so I will do something about that, but I’m going on 20 years of taking these things out and leaving them out.
Cheers,
Andy
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="NotSkilledHere"]<QUOTE author="UATrombone" post_id="264618" time="1737286513" user_id="18535">
Best way to check the effects is to make 2 identical (OK, almost identical <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>) tuning slides and add such plate to one of them for direct comparison.[/quote]
even better, make 1 tuning slide and play the horn with it and then solder on the plate and then play with it in that state. so yo get the closest examination to "identical tuning slides"
</QUOTE>
Soldering that on could change the alignment of the tuning slide legs and either add or release tension, which definitely can affect how the horn blows. So that's not even a perfect way to do the experiment.
Best way to check the effects is to make 2 identical (OK, almost identical <EMOJI seq="1f609" tseq="1f609">😉</EMOJI>) tuning slides and add such plate to one of them for direct comparison.[/quote]
even better, make 1 tuning slide and play the horn with it and then solder on the plate and then play with it in that state. so yo get the closest examination to "identical tuning slides"
</QUOTE>
Soldering that on could change the alignment of the tuning slide legs and either add or release tension, which definitely can affect how the horn blows. So that's not even a perfect way to do the experiment.
- timbone
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Apr 30, 2018
I am a strong advocate of such mass at the extremities of the trombone. Think of it like your hands and feet being the furthest from the heart- the tuning slide and end crook are the same way, although instead of blood loss, we have vibration loss, which leads to less slotting and core. I have played both the Courtois 410 and 500BH and I will say there is a marked improvement in focus. Most players find this to be too heavy for their taste, but it works. I also think the early Conn's from the 1920's that have capping strips offer similar feel. Years ago, Bob Sanders demonstrated the significance of the "placque resonator" as Courtois called it and he was demonstrating how fat pedal F's were with the addition on the tuning slide. I hope to get a 500 BH one day. The weight is like a crane boom if you can imagine; sure the horn is heavier but having the weight behind your head seems to make the nose of the horn lighter. It changes the acoustic. If you get a chance, be open minded and try it. Another thing Courtois did was present an Evolution model that was bell over bell. You should google that one!
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
[quote="timbone"]I am a strong advocate of such mass at the extremities of the trombone. Think of it like your hands and feet being the furthest from the heart- the tuning slide and end crook are the same way, although instead of blood loss, we have vibration loss, which leads to less slotting and core.[/quote]
Some times it also can lead to too much slotting and stifness, above all if your bell is not annealed, like my 88HTO, but I like to put a counterweight on the F att tuning slide, at the very end of the lower tubing, for balance sake, certainly the times I put scores on a lyra attached on my bell...
Some times it also can lead to too much slotting and stifness, above all if your bell is not annealed, like my 88HTO, but I like to put a counterweight on the F att tuning slide, at the very end of the lower tubing, for balance sake, certainly the times I put scores on a lyra attached on my bell...