Mouthpiece switching?
- xenobone
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Jan 27, 2025
Do you think that switcing from my main classical mouthpiece (Schilke 52d) to a smaller denis wick or any small mouthpiece for lead jazz playing would effect embouchere or tone or anything?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Anything and everything "will affect" something.
Lots of people do switch.
I have a strong preference for keeping a rim size that works well, on different size horns. It makes switching between horns effortless with no adjustment needed.
That's why I started making mouthpieces 40+ years ago, so I would have many more choices - nothing like that existed. With my stuff you can put a rim.the size of your 52D on a shallower cup for small or medium bore tenor or even alto. That's exactly what I do and it works extremely well.
Lots of people do switch.
I have a strong preference for keeping a rim size that works well, on different size horns. It makes switching between horns effortless with no adjustment needed.
That's why I started making mouthpieces 40+ years ago, so I would have many more choices - nothing like that existed. With my stuff you can put a rim.the size of your 52D on a shallower cup for small or medium bore tenor or even alto. That's exactly what I do and it works extremely well.
- Trombola2112
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Oct 05, 2022
Some people can switch without much trouble, others can't. Personally I use the same rim size on all tenors like Doug above. Didn't have time to really practice switching between sizes and I've found I play better on larger rim sizes.
- NotSkilledHere
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Aug 07, 2024
will it affect tone and everything? absolutely. should you? depends. what sound are you looking for? what horn? how does YOUR face react to different mouthpieces?
I think playing classical and jazz certainly require different mouthpiece styles/shapes, whatever you choose to call it, simply because you are pursuing a different tone and style. a "smaller" mouthpiece will facilitate higher notes. although technically not the correct way to pursue high range, it can certainly help. do note however that there is a detriment to going too small and while this does vary for everyone, your face will simply not like mouthpieces after it gets to a certain size.
I think there is merit in keeping rim size the same so you dont have to adjust embochure too much if at all when you switch mouthpieces. as mentioned, some people can just toss in mouthpieces at random and play while others have a very narrow range of sizes they are willing/able to play comfortably. However, it isnt wrong to have and play various mouthpiece sizes. it's about what works for you and what sound you are searching for.
I think playing classical and jazz certainly require different mouthpiece styles/shapes, whatever you choose to call it, simply because you are pursuing a different tone and style. a "smaller" mouthpiece will facilitate higher notes. although technically not the correct way to pursue high range, it can certainly help. do note however that there is a detriment to going too small and while this does vary for everyone, your face will simply not like mouthpieces after it gets to a certain size.
I think there is merit in keeping rim size the same so you dont have to adjust embochure too much if at all when you switch mouthpieces. as mentioned, some people can just toss in mouthpieces at random and play while others have a very narrow range of sizes they are willing/able to play comfortably. However, it isnt wrong to have and play various mouthpiece sizes. it's about what works for you and what sound you are searching for.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I think what Doug says about rim sizes is probably pretty smart.
That said, I have never done that. I have three horns (small bore tenor, large bore tenor, and bass) and I use wildly different rim sizes on each one, and have never had a problem from it. But if I was just now experimenting with it, I'd probably take Doug's advice and try to keep the same rim size if I could. Doug's modular mouthpiece system seems like a natural and good approach to switching.
That said, I have never done that. I have three horns (small bore tenor, large bore tenor, and bass) and I use wildly different rim sizes on each one, and have never had a problem from it. But if I was just now experimenting with it, I'd probably take Doug's advice and try to keep the same rim size if I could. Doug's modular mouthpiece system seems like a natural and good approach to switching.
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I was playing a Bach 5G on my large bore tenor and couldn't find a suitable mouthpiece for my newly acquired small bore. Doug suggested a Bach 5. and it opened up the horn and improved my high range. I ended up buying one of his custom setups tailored to me based on a Skype session.
- Digidog
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Dec 13, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]I have a strong preference for keeping a rim size that works well, on different size horns. It makes switching between horns effortless with no adjustment needed.[/quote]
Does that practise work when switching to a bass trombone mouthpiece?
I have never ever considered this practise - I just switch and adjust - but it sounds like an ease of effort. On the other hand, I maybe should not over-work something that works for me.
Does that practise work when switching to a bass trombone mouthpiece?
I have never ever considered this practise - I just switch and adjust - but it sounds like an ease of effort. On the other hand, I maybe should not over-work something that works for me.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Matt K has done it... tenor rim on a very deep cup.
That sort of works IF you have a great low range on a tenor rim size.
The other way works better IF you have high range on a bass rim size. I make quite a variety of tenor depth cups that you can put bass rims on, and the shallower cup suports the tenor sound and range.
Success really depends on how good you want or need to be on the double. It's great for being able to pick up the other instrument with no adjustment and just play. But there are usually limitations.
That sort of works IF you have a great low range on a tenor rim size.
The other way works better IF you have high range on a bass rim size. I make quite a variety of tenor depth cups that you can put bass rims on, and the shallower cup suports the tenor sound and range.
Success really depends on how good you want or need to be on the double. It's great for being able to pick up the other instrument with no adjustment and just play. But there are usually limitations.
- snowtraveler
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Nov 04, 2024
Totally appreciate the differences in tone, intonation etc. that mouthpieces can affect; but the literal "interface" here seems paramount.
Working through this in real time, I'm looking for a mouthpiece that (a) feels comfortable and hopefully "natural" with what amounts to artificial dentition, and (b) mates perfectly with my horn. Frankly I'm just puzzled: I mean, maybe a mouthpiece that "challenges" my new embouchure is just what's needed?
Working through this in real time, I'm looking for a mouthpiece that (a) feels comfortable and hopefully "natural" with what amounts to artificial dentition, and (b) mates perfectly with my horn. Frankly I'm just puzzled: I mean, maybe a mouthpiece that "challenges" my new embouchure is just what's needed?
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Better example than I: Jim Nova plays a 3G sized rim for bass and contra. All those overdubs he does… 3G rim!!
I find that what works best depends on what else I’m playing. I used a Euph 104N/K/K8 for a long time. I spent a year subbing for a buddy of mine who had knee surgery and gravitated to an LB114/L/L9 when I was full timing a bass.
Now, if I’m playing lots of tenor I’ll probably be using a 106 or 108 rim with an I or J cup. If I’m doing lots of bass, probably the 110 or 114 rims with an L cup.
I find that what works best depends on what else I’m playing. I used a Euph 104N/K/K8 for a long time. I spent a year subbing for a buddy of mine who had knee surgery and gravitated to an LB114/L/L9 when I was full timing a bass.
Now, if I’m playing lots of tenor I’ll probably be using a 106 or 108 rim with an I or J cup. If I’m doing lots of bass, probably the 110 or 114 rims with an L cup.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
I think there are merits to both using the same rim size and switching rim sizes.
When you switch rim sizes you’re creating new pathways in your brain to play. This could be a good thing or a could be harmful depending on what you need to improve your playing.
Currently when doing my daily practicing I’m exploring switching rim sizes every day or two and I think it’s doing a lot of for my playing.
Side note if you’re a bass trombone player looking to double I absolutely recommend Doug’s LB mouthpieces with tenor cups. Doug recently made me a LB C+ and LB F+ cups for me and they are fantastic. The difference in sound to a normal LT or XT cup is minimal and now I can play tenor with my 114 rims if need to double on tenor last minute.
When you switch rim sizes you’re creating new pathways in your brain to play. This could be a good thing or a could be harmful depending on what you need to improve your playing.
Currently when doing my daily practicing I’m exploring switching rim sizes every day or two and I think it’s doing a lot of for my playing.
Side note if you’re a bass trombone player looking to double I absolutely recommend Doug’s LB mouthpieces with tenor cups. Doug recently made me a LB C+ and LB F+ cups for me and they are fantastic. The difference in sound to a normal LT or XT cup is minimal and now I can play tenor with my 114 rims if need to double on tenor last minute.
- cubetrom
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Nov 07, 2024
In my trumpet playing days I was a perennial mouthpiece switcher and I think it did more harm than good overall - though I was never particularly comfortable with the instrument and was trying to find a quick fix...
Since coming back to playing trombone I've been enjoying a smaller mouthpiece and am having good results with it - I have a Yamaha 45C2 that I use with my 356G and it works really well - on the other end of the spectrum I have a 4AL that I use with my Bach 42B - also works really well (but hard work!) Inbetween that I have a Nils Landgren signature and a 48. I can play all of them fine but the smaller ones feel a lot easier to work with. I'm interested in trying a Bach 12C, just to compare it to the 45C2.
Since coming back to playing trombone I've been enjoying a smaller mouthpiece and am having good results with it - I have a Yamaha 45C2 that I use with my 356G and it works really well - on the other end of the spectrum I have a 4AL that I use with my Bach 42B - also works really well (but hard work!) Inbetween that I have a Nils Landgren signature and a 48. I can play all of them fine but the smaller ones feel a lot easier to work with. I'm interested in trying a Bach 12C, just to compare it to the 45C2.
- KingThings
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Feb 13, 2024
it doesn't bother me to switch. I have a bunch of mouthpieces, from David Steinmayer size to a 2. I swap 'em for sound quality variation, not for range really. A 22 gives a trumpet quality for some jazz numbers, I use a King 29 that works great for me on first or second symphony parts....I think that one is kind of a 3 size, I like a 12c or 11m on my 3B for smooth jazz, or maybe a 6 1/2. I have an old Kozicup that is..... shiny.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I use the 2G size on everything. But everything I play is shallow other than my bass piece, which is very deep.