What to do about lacquer wear?
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I have a horn that the lacquer is wearing off of, even though the horn is less than two years old. It's disappearing from the usual places and a couple unusual spots.
So, what can I do to preserve the remaining lacquer and cover the bare spots?
As for covering spots, I'm thinking of treating them with a coat of Hard as Nails clear lacquer nail polish as needed. Is there a better option?
And what about the rest of the horn? Obviously, it's not the most enduring lacquer job.
So, what can I do to preserve the remaining lacquer and cover the bare spots?
As for covering spots, I'm thinking of treating them with a coat of Hard as Nails clear lacquer nail polish as needed. Is there a better option?
And what about the rest of the horn? Obviously, it's not the most enduring lacquer job.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Hot take, and doesn't really answer how to *keep* the lacquer -- send it to Sweeney or some other really good tech, and have the lacquer stripped. Bonus points if you get a scratch finish.
Sounds like the lacquer is bogus anyways
Sounds like the lacquer is bogus anyways
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="harrisonreed"]Hot take, and doesn't really answer how to *keep* the lacquer -- send it to Sweeney or some other really good tech, and have the lacquer stripped. Bonus points if you get a scratch finish.
Sounds like the lacquer is bogus anyways[/quote]
Yeah, I thought about that. I just don't like the look, especially on a gold/rose bell like mine. But I occasionally toy with that idea. Besides, when they strip the lacquer they necessarily strip some of the metal, too.
Sounds like the lacquer is bogus anyways[/quote]
Yeah, I thought about that. I just don't like the look, especially on a gold/rose bell like mine. But I occasionally toy with that idea. Besides, when they strip the lacquer they necessarily strip some of the metal, too.
- TomWest
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Apr 04, 2023
I had a similar experience with a two year old saxophone. The lacquer finish started wearing off on some of the side keys and thumb rest. I was upset that a $4,000 sax had such lousy finish quality. Then someone in my band told me to relax, the worn off finish just made it mine. Sorry your trombone isn’t looking new anymore.
- atopper333
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Mar 09, 2022
I’ve definitely had that happen on a few of the horns I’ve had. I’ve had success by wiping the contact points off after playing.
I’ve used pledge but now mostly use some carnauba style spray wax, which keeps the tarnish down on the worn lacquered areas, but I’d suggest to use only after research and if your comfortable with it…
I’ve used pledge but now mostly use some carnauba style spray wax, which keeps the tarnish down on the worn lacquered areas, but I’d suggest to use only after research and if your comfortable with it…
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Sorry you are having lacquer loss.
If the loss is on the usual hold points you can put on clear nail polish. Including on the gooseneck. Leather grips work OK as well.
If the loss is anywhere else, nail polish is a bad idea. Too thick a coating can affect how the horn resonates. Especially on the bell. For these cases I suggest the polish and wax route.
If the loss is on the usual hold points you can put on clear nail polish. Including on the gooseneck. Leather grips work OK as well.
If the loss is anywhere else, nail polish is a bad idea. Too thick a coating can affect how the horn resonates. Especially on the bell. For these cases I suggest the polish and wax route.
- atopper333
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Mar 09, 2022
Also forgot to mention, if the horn is nitro-cellulose lacquer, a good tech may be able to spot lacquer it…
- pfrancis
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Jul 22, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]… have the lacquer stripped. Bonus points if you get a scratch finish. …[/quote]
Lacquer stripped no problem, not a bad idea. Looks nice, can change the feel of the horn for the player - though doubtful it changes appreciably to the audience.
Lacquer stripped with brush finish? Bad idea. It’ll look the same (mostly) after a few months. The exposed scratched brass will have the added *bonus* of holding all dirt, oil, water and other. Would 100% not leave it raw with a scratch/blasted finish.
Lacquer stripped no problem, not a bad idea. Looks nice, can change the feel of the horn for the player - though doubtful it changes appreciably to the audience.
Lacquer stripped with brush finish? Bad idea. It’ll look the same (mostly) after a few months. The exposed scratched brass will have the added *bonus* of holding all dirt, oil, water and other. Would 100% not leave it raw with a scratch/blasted finish.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Eh, mine's been just fine for years now.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="tbdana"]I have a horn that the lacquer is wearing off of, even though the horn is less than two years old. It's disappearing from the usual places and a couple unusual spots.[/quote]
Wow! This is surprising, and if it happened to me I'd be very upset. I have a small collection of trombones, mostly "vintage" (two of my favorites are a King 2B from 1958 and a Conn 88H from 1972) with lacquer in generally excellent condition - very small amounts of wear showing at the grip points. I do wipe down each instrument with a soft cloth before re-casing them, but do not use any polish, etc. A couple of even older trombones show minimal wear, which was present before I acquired them, but there has been no further deterioration.
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:
Wow! This is surprising, and if it happened to me I'd be very upset. I have a small collection of trombones, mostly "vintage" (two of my favorites are a King 2B from 1958 and a Conn 88H from 1972) with lacquer in generally excellent condition - very small amounts of wear showing at the grip points. I do wipe down each instrument with a soft cloth before re-casing them, but do not use any polish, etc. A couple of even older trombones show minimal wear, which was present before I acquired them, but there has been no further deterioration.
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]...
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:[/quote]
Original lacquer was nitrocellulose, a common formula from the early part of the 20th Century. It is the one that strips in hot water. Bach was using that lacquer until quite recently.
Conn (Lustre Conn) and King moved to an epoxy lacquer which is VERY difficult to remove. Yamaha also uses epoxy lacquer.
I've heard that some Asian makers use a UV cured Acrylic lacquer. This will also be very difficult to remove, although easier than epoxy with something that contains methylene chloride (note: methylene chloride is VERY hazardous).
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:[/quote]
Original lacquer was nitrocellulose, a common formula from the early part of the 20th Century. It is the one that strips in hot water. Bach was using that lacquer until quite recently.
Conn (Lustre Conn) and King moved to an epoxy lacquer which is VERY difficult to remove. Yamaha also uses epoxy lacquer.
I've heard that some Asian makers use a UV cured Acrylic lacquer. This will also be very difficult to remove, although easier than epoxy with something that contains methylene chloride (note: methylene chloride is VERY hazardous).
- slidesix
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Jan 03, 2025
You mention the horn is only 2 years old. So I understand this isn't some 1970 or older vintage horn? They had the older style nitrocellulose where water/dampness + heat (even direct sun) would peel it. So assumuing that kind of lacquer isn't is play, I find just wiping the horn down on its contact points with a shiny cloth before I put it aways is all it took.
- slidesix
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Jan 03, 2025
Oh, one final thought. These days I dont consider lacquer to be a permanent thing. that doesn't mean I don't wipe and care for my horn--I do to an almost OCD level--it is just I made peace with the lacquer finish being a temporary thing that will likely wear even with my OCD care. At least that is how I mentally and ritualistically approach it!
BTW, good luck with your horn care and preservation. I hope you find a way to keep it still looking nice and cared for.
BTW, good luck with your horn care and preservation. I hope you find a way to keep it still looking nice and cared for.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="269071" time="1741111404" user_id="158">
...
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:[/quote]
Original lacquer was nitrocellulose, a common formula from the early part of the 20th Century. It is the one that strips in hot water. Bach was using that lacquer until quite recently.
Conn (Lustre Conn) and King moved to an epoxy lacquer which is VERY difficult to remove. Yamaha also uses epoxy lacquer.
I've heard that some Asian makers use a UV cured Acrylic lacquer. This will also be very difficult to remove, although easier than epoxy with something that contains methylene chloride (note: methylene chloride is VERY hazardous).
</QUOTE>
I have noticed that both Bach and Conn now use lacquer that is very easily damaged. I can't even do ultrasonic cleanings on them because the lacquer will start peeling off in sheets. I don't know when they made the switch, and I don't know if King instruments use it too. Getzen is the same way.
...
I guess lacquer ain't what it used to be. Is this due to the changed chemistry of the modern safer, less-polluting lacquer formulations - or to sloppy manufacturing practices? :idk:[/quote]
Original lacquer was nitrocellulose, a common formula from the early part of the 20th Century. It is the one that strips in hot water. Bach was using that lacquer until quite recently.
Conn (Lustre Conn) and King moved to an epoxy lacquer which is VERY difficult to remove. Yamaha also uses epoxy lacquer.
I've heard that some Asian makers use a UV cured Acrylic lacquer. This will also be very difficult to remove, although easier than epoxy with something that contains methylene chloride (note: methylene chloride is VERY hazardous).
</QUOTE>
I have noticed that both Bach and Conn now use lacquer that is very easily damaged. I can't even do ultrasonic cleanings on them because the lacquer will start peeling off in sheets. I don't know when they made the switch, and I don't know if King instruments use it too. Getzen is the same way.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Methylene chloride is no longer available to consumers in the US.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="brassmedic"]I have noticed that both Bach and Conn now use lacquer that is very easily damaged. I can't even do ultrasonic cleanings on them because the lacquer will start peeling off in sheets. I don't know when they made the switch, and I don't know if King instruments use it too. Getzen is the same way.[/quote]
Oooooh, I wonder if that's why my lacquer is failing. The local music store did an untrasonic cleaning on my horn when I took it in for some work. Hmmmmm... :clever: :cool:
Oooooh, I wonder if that's why my lacquer is failing. The local music store did an untrasonic cleaning on my horn when I took it in for some work. Hmmmmm... :clever: :cool:
- u_2bobone
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Mar 25, 2018
tbdana : When you sound as great as you do, lacquer loss simply means that you've been spending a lot of quality time on the horn ! When I asked my old NSO section mate Bob Isele about some serious wear issues on his 88H he replied with : "Some of us shine 'em and some of us play 'em" ! :shuffle: