Embouchure Quirk
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
While recently practicing I noticed my attacks were fuzzy, especially in the mid to lower range. I tried a few things and eventually moved the mouthpiece more to my left side. Attacks cleared up immediately. In addition, it took much less effort to play with increased efficiency. But when I buzz into a rim with that setting my aperture is off center, closer to the right side of the inner rim. I find this odd. You'd think the aperture should be centered on the MP. Any one else experience this and/or have an explanation. Doug?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
It seems like it would be nice have the buzz centered, either centered on the lips or centered in the mouthpiece... but I don't think that's important or worth worrying about. Inside the mouthpiece it will take care of itself.
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Thanks Doug. Not really worried about it. Was mostly just curious.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="cigmar"]You'd think the aperture should be centered on the MP. Any one else experience this and/or have an explanation. Doug?[/quote]
What's to say it's not centered along some axis? Nobody's teeth are perfectly straight, so what looks externally shifted left or right might actually put the aperture perfectly centered on some axis that splits the mouthpiece. In fact, I'm certain it does.
That's not even accounting for the issue of the aperture shifting along a single axis as you change registers. The whole system moves around for every note.
Being perfectly centered, as if you split the mouthpiece into two axis at 90⁰ to each other at the center of the throat and always putting the aperture at the intersection, would make playing the trombone basically impossible.
What's to say it's not centered along some axis? Nobody's teeth are perfectly straight, so what looks externally shifted left or right might actually put the aperture perfectly centered on some axis that splits the mouthpiece. In fact, I'm certain it does.
That's not even accounting for the issue of the aperture shifting along a single axis as you change registers. The whole system moves around for every note.
Being perfectly centered, as if you split the mouthpiece into two axis at 90⁰ to each other at the center of the throat and always putting the aperture at the intersection, would make playing the trombone basically impossible.
- Wilktone
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
"Centering the buzzing aperture" is one of those things that gets mentioned from time to time, but not by anyone who has spent some time viewing embouchures inside a transparent mouthpiece. The general idea here is that if you free buzz you see where the aperture forms and then set the mouthpiece so the aperture is centered. But where the aperture forms while free buzzing is not always where it forms inside the mouthpiece when playing.
On the north/south plane it's not good to have the aperture right in the middle, the aperture is almost always going to be above or below the shank of the mouthpiece. Perfectly 50/50 typically causes problems.
It's not hard to find brass musicians who have an aperture forming off center inside the mouthpiece too. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. Mine looks to be. Here's a low Bb.
On the north/south plane it's not good to have the aperture right in the middle, the aperture is almost always going to be above or below the shank of the mouthpiece. Perfectly 50/50 typically causes problems.
It's not hard to find brass musicians who have an aperture forming off center inside the mouthpiece too. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. Mine looks to be. Here's a low Bb.
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Wilktone"]On the north/south plane it's not good to have the aperture right in the middle, the aperture is almost always going to be above or below the shank of the mouthpiece. Perfectly 50/50 typically causes problems.[/quote]
Understand that on the north/south plane the aperture is rarely if ever centered. But in my case the off center is on the east/west plane.
Understand that on the north/south plane the aperture is rarely if ever centered. But in my case the off center is on the east/west plane.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Like Doug and Dave said, don’t worry about it. Very few people have an absolutely centered embouchure on either the N-S axis or the E-W axis. If you place the mouthpiece to one side or the other, that’s fine. No one in the audience cares whether your mouthpiece is centered, or whether it looks “ideal.” The most important thing is: Where do you place the mouthpiece so you sound the best and where it’s the most functional?
I know a lot of people, especially trumpet and horn players, who are really quite far to one side. I’ve even found as I’ve grown older that my “center” has shifted slightly. A follow-up lesson with Doug convinced me that his initial recommendation was correct!
Here’s a picture of a local freelancer, Paul Mazzio:
It works for him, and that’s what matters.
I know a lot of people, especially trumpet and horn players, who are really quite far to one side. I’ve even found as I’ve grown older that my “center” has shifted slightly. A follow-up lesson with Doug convinced me that his initial recommendation was correct!
Here’s a picture of a local freelancer, Paul Mazzio:
It works for him, and that’s what matters.
- dbwhitaker
- Posts: 196
- Joined: May 16, 2019
Doug replied to essentially the same question a little more than a year ago with "look at my picture". The recent video in another thread of Doug playing Decoupage makes it even more obvious.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 27#p225327">https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=225327#p225327</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 27#p225327">https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=225327#p225327</LINK_TEXT>
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="cigmar"]<QUOTE author="Wilktone" post_id="270137" time="1741959750" user_id="220">
On the north/south plane it's not good to have the aperture right in the middle, the aperture is almost always going to be above or below the shank of the mouthpiece. Perfectly 50/50 typically causes problems.[/quote]
Understand that on the north/south plane the aperture is rarely if ever centered. But in my case the off center is on the east/west plane.
</QUOTE>
What I was trying to say is that you can think of it like this, your N/S axis is rotated, so that the aperture probably is centered E/W. And the embouchure adjustment and horn angle moves along this skewed N/S axis.
On the north/south plane it's not good to have the aperture right in the middle, the aperture is almost always going to be above or below the shank of the mouthpiece. Perfectly 50/50 typically causes problems.[/quote]
Understand that on the north/south plane the aperture is rarely if ever centered. But in my case the off center is on the east/west plane.
</QUOTE>
What I was trying to say is that you can think of it like this, your N/S axis is rotated, so that the aperture probably is centered E/W. And the embouchure adjustment and horn angle moves along this skewed N/S axis.
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]
What I was trying to say is that you can think of it like this, your N/S axis is rotated, so that the aperture probably is centered E/W. And the embouchure adjustment and horn angle moves along this skewed N/S axis.[/quote]
You're probably right in all that. I'm gonna try not to overthink it. Just put where it feels and sounds right and works the best.
What I was trying to say is that you can think of it like this, your N/S axis is rotated, so that the aperture probably is centered E/W. And the embouchure adjustment and horn angle moves along this skewed N/S axis.[/quote]
You're probably right in all that. I'm gonna try not to overthink it. Just put where it feels and sounds right and works the best.
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
I had a couple of nasty embouchure quirks when I played in college. I tended to play pretty loud in concert band and jazz ensemble. That didn’t help. Playing for my own enjoyment and with local groups like a trombone choir and a community college jazz ensemble, I had several decades to rethink and re-approach embouchure related things. The quirks resurface when I have stopped playing for months and then go through the process of rebuilding my endurance and ability to play things I used to play. Most helpful is doing a lot of softer playing.