double tonguing for fun and profit
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Good job. You sound great! I didn't read every word (so many distractions here today) but I read most of it and listened to your playing. I like what you wrote and how you played. Loved what you had to say about fast playing, too.
I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.
I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="jacobgarchik"]Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Great post!!! Very much agree with all of your myths busted. Very interesting to me that Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation, which is severely underrated (and basically unknown to most brass players today), but really was one of the most standard ways of tonguing on all wind instruments for several centuries. Even as late as 1830 it's what a certain trombone method defined as "double tonguing" (not "tuku tuku"!) and the "main way of articulating on the trombone".
[quote="tbdana"]I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.[/quote]
I do domething similar, with the "tere tere" type of double, and doodle.
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Great post!!! Very much agree with all of your myths busted. Very interesting to me that Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation, which is severely underrated (and basically unknown to most brass players today), but really was one of the most standard ways of tonguing on all wind instruments for several centuries. Even as late as 1830 it's what a certain trombone method defined as "double tonguing" (not "tuku tuku"!) and the "main way of articulating on the trombone".
[quote="tbdana"]I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.[/quote]
I do domething similar, with the "tere tere" type of double, and doodle.
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
Thanks for the comments! It really is remarkable how many different approaches there are.
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
I've posted a second essay, comparing double tonguing and doodle tonguing in depth.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... Share=true">https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarchik/p/double-tonguing-part-2?r=sf89&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... Share=true">https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarchik/p/double-tonguing-part-2?r=sf89&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true</LINK_TEXT>
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
I've posted a third essay, with thoughts on single tonguing, the threshold between single and paired, and first steps in double tonguing. I included some short jazz examples of myself playing at some threshold tempos contrasting single and double tongued approaches.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-3">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-part-3</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-3">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-part-3</LINK_TEXT>
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
Part 4 is here, about the transition from straight exercises to swung, and pairing bebop and bebop-like tunes with arbans exercises.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... medium=ios">https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarchik/p/double-tonguing-part-4?r=sf89&utm_medium=ios</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... medium=ios">https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarchik/p/double-tonguing-part-4?r=sf89&utm_medium=ios</LINK_TEXT>
- mgladdish
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Oct 10, 2021
[quote="jacobgarchik"]Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I've only read the first post so far and it's already a great read. Your early response to Fontana et al was identical to mine, if anything I had an even stronger revulsion to it.
This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-for-fun-and-profit</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
I've only read the first post so far and it's already a great read. Your early response to Fontana et al was identical to mine, if anything I had an even stronger revulsion to it.
- jacobgarchik
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Oct 27, 2018
I've posted Part 5, where I talk about improvising with Coltrane-like Isorhythms to practice repetitive tonguing patterns.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-5">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-part-5</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-5">https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/double-tonguing-part-5</LINK_TEXT>
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
[quote="LeTromboniste"]Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation[/quote]
I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.
I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="AtomicClock"]<QUOTE author="LeTromboniste" post_id="270998" time="1742778358" user_id="3038">
Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation[/quote]
I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.
</QUOTE>
It's not an English R, that for sure doesn't make an articulation. It's a (single-)rolled R, like in Spanish "tres".
Actually that word, without the s (so "tre") perfectly illustrates just how fast one can articulate with this style of tonguing. There doesn't even need to be a vowell between the T and R for there to be a note, just the short moment where the tongue starts flicking backwards, after the T comes out but before the tongue seals again briefly for the R, makes a very fast note. Chain those very quickly together, "tretretretretre" and you get a string of very fast notes.
Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation[/quote]
I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.
</QUOTE>
It's not an English R, that for sure doesn't make an articulation. It's a (single-)rolled R, like in Spanish "tres".
Actually that word, without the s (so "tre") perfectly illustrates just how fast one can articulate with this style of tonguing. There doesn't even need to be a vowell between the T and R for there to be a note, just the short moment where the tongue starts flicking backwards, after the T comes out but before the tongue seals again briefly for the R, makes a very fast note. Chain those very quickly together, "tretretretretre" and you get a string of very fast notes.