Yamaha Alain Trudel small shank options
- vintage88h
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
:hi:
I really like the Yamaha Alain Trudel piece. I would like to play it on my medium bore horn as well. Unfortunately there is no small shank version of the the Trudel piece.
I really like the rim, the feeling and sound of this piece. Are there any small shank options out there, which are similiar to the Yamaha Trudel?
Any help would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
I really like the Yamaha Alain Trudel piece. I would like to play it on my medium bore horn as well. Unfortunately there is no small shank version of the the Trudel piece.
I really like the rim, the feeling and sound of this piece. Are there any small shank options out there, which are similiar to the Yamaha Trudel?
Any help would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
I know of only one. I once had a Trudel rim threaded to fit a Yamaha 51 cup. There's a slight step where they join, but not much. It seemed to play fine. But I never played it critically. I was just trying to avoid switching rims, which I've never liked. I eventually went to a Doug Elliot system.
The rim threads onto DE LT cups just fine, but there's a small step because the LT diameter is too big. Maybe MT would work better?
The rim threads onto DE LT cups just fine, but there's a small step because the LT diameter is too big. Maybe MT would work better?
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
Can't help you with your specific question, but the Alain Trudel piece is really interesting if that mouthpiece size works for you!
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
It can really be a killer mouthpiece if you like 6½-ish sized mouthpieces!
Might be possible to get one custom-made by Yamaha in small shank, though that might cost you. If not possible, then I would say send it to Vennture for them to scan and copy in small shank. Otherwise could have your leadpipe pulled and replace it with one that will take a large shank, but also costly and will change your horn.
Might be possible to get one custom-made by Yamaha in small shank, though that might cost you. If not possible, then I would say send it to Vennture for them to scan and copy in small shank. Otherwise could have your leadpipe pulled and replace it with one that will take a large shank, but also costly and will change your horn.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I second the Vennture route, but care must be taken with the backbore -- going from large shank to small shank will almost certainly require a change to the length of the entire mouthpiece and also almost certainly require a less open backbore (if only to fit inside the smaller shank). You can do that in the software, but you might want to start by extrapolating one of the small shank 6.5AL backbores they have in their database as a starting point.
I'd scan the original and have that pulled up, then pull up Bach's 6.5 SS, copy the cup of the Trudel, and copy the backbore and shank tip diameter of the 6.5 (it will likely need truncating or extrapolating to mate with the different throat size). Make sure the overall length is set to mimic the 6.5ss. Then, possibly, I'd do deep editing on the backbore in your design so that the backbore is in between the Trudel and 6.5 profiles, particularly in the throat length. You may still not wind up with something that is comparable.
I'd scan the original and have that pulled up, then pull up Bach's 6.5 SS, copy the cup of the Trudel, and copy the backbore and shank tip diameter of the 6.5 (it will likely need truncating or extrapolating to mate with the different throat size). Make sure the overall length is set to mimic the 6.5ss. Then, possibly, I'd do deep editing on the backbore in your design so that the backbore is in between the Trudel and 6.5 profiles, particularly in the throat length. You may still not wind up with something that is comparable.
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
Somewhat related, but funny. Yamaha Canada's artist page for AT Shows him holding an alto trombone that they don't sell any more, and that obviously can't accept his signature mouthpiece.
[url]https://ca.yamaha.com/en/artists/a/alain_trudel.html
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
I know of one deep funneled 6 1/2 sized that I liked for some time : the Stork BT6 :
https://storkcustom.com/trombone/
Available in both large and small shanks.
https://storkcustom.com/trombone/
Available in both large and small shanks.
- Danitrb
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Dec 10, 2022
Yamaha 48 and different types of 51 have same rim diameter with different cups and throat !
- Danitrb
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Dec 10, 2022
Hi, anyone is familiar with Yamaha 51 small shank cup depth ? What would be just sightly deeper cup than Yamaha 48 small shank?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Danitrb"]Hi, anyone is familiar with Yamaha 51 small shank cup depth ? What would be just sightly deeper cup than Yamaha 48 small shank?[/quote]
I believe that the small-shank Yamaha 51 Cup is both larger diameter and deeper than the Yamaha 48.
I believe that the small-shank Yamaha 51 Cup is both larger diameter and deeper than the Yamaha 48.
- Danitrb
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Dec 10, 2022
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="Danitrb" post_id="285462" time="1757839121" user_id="16002">
Hi, anyone is familiar with Yamaha 51 small shank cup depth ? What would be just sightly deeper cup than Yamaha 48 small shank?[/quote]
I believe that the small-shank Yamaha 51 Cup is both larger diameter and deeper than the Yamaha 48.
</QUOTE>
Yes, I think too. I meant different cups of 51 , like 51B and 51c4.
Hi, anyone is familiar with Yamaha 51 small shank cup depth ? What would be just sightly deeper cup than Yamaha 48 small shank?[/quote]
I believe that the small-shank Yamaha 51 Cup is both larger diameter and deeper than the Yamaha 48.
</QUOTE>
Yes, I think too. I meant different cups of 51 , like 51B and 51c4.
- PhilE
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
From the Yamaha mouthpiece spec page;
In small shank there are 3 varieties of the 48 mpc all with a rim ID of 25.25 mm and 3 varieties of the 51 all with a rim ID of 25.23 mm.
There is a small shank 51 for euphonium with a rim ID of 25.24 mm.
For reference the rim ID of the AT mpc is given as 25.23 mm.
In small shank there are 3 varieties of the 48 mpc all with a rim ID of 25.25 mm and 3 varieties of the 51 all with a rim ID of 25.23 mm.
There is a small shank 51 for euphonium with a rim ID of 25.24 mm.
For reference the rim ID of the AT mpc is given as 25.23 mm.
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
I just had a look at my Trudel/51 hybrid and a 51c4. It's hard to find a difference with calipers, but on my face, the Trudel rim feels bigger. I vaguely recall some marketing statements made about it where the high point of the rim was moved toward the outside, to make it play like a larger piece. There might be something to that.