Bach 16 discontinued?
- andersonmark56
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mar 25, 2025
OK, I'll admit I haven't looked at new trombones in at least 20 years, so pardon me if this sounds naive', but did Bach/Selmer discontinue the 16? They still list the 16M, but I'm just curious. I love my MV 16 and I knew players who played 16's in the past. Again, just curious, so if anyone knows, please reply!
- TomWest
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Apr 04, 2023
Yes, the 12, 16 and 16m are discontinued. I went to the Kessler site and they have them marked as discontinued. The model 36 and 42 are still in production, in both straight tenor or f-rotor models.
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
The 16M is still in production. It is only listed under LT16M. All Bach 16M’s came with the lightweight slide, but sometimes (especially early on) the nomenclature didn’t include “LT.”
- chromebone
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
So I guess at this rate Conn Selmer is just killing off all of their brands little by little. Sounds like a solid business plan.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="chromebone"]So I guess at this rate Conn Selmer is just killing off all of their brands little by little. Sounds like a solid business plan.[/quote]
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.
- chromebone
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="chromebone" post_id="271698" time="1743387703" user_id="3008">
So I guess at this rate Conn Selmer is just killing off all of their brands little by little. Sounds like a solid business plan.[/quote]
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.
</QUOTE>
I get it they maybe no one wants a Holton TR-150 anymore, but surely a Bach 12 or the different variants of the 16 or 2B would still have a market? The fact is, their quality isn’t competitive anymore, so rather than address that, they seem content to discontinue models that should still have a market. Will they even be making the 3b in a few years?
So I guess at this rate Conn Selmer is just killing off all of their brands little by little. Sounds like a solid business plan.[/quote]
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.
</QUOTE>
I get it they maybe no one wants a Holton TR-150 anymore, but surely a Bach 12 or the different variants of the 16 or 2B would still have a market? The fact is, their quality isn’t competitive anymore, so rather than address that, they seem content to discontinue models that should still have a market. Will they even be making the 3b in a few years?
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="chromebone"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="271700" time="1743387971" user_id="3131">
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.[/quote]
I get it they maybe no one wants a Holton TR-150 anymore, but surely a Bach 12 or the different variants of the 16 or 2B would still have a market? The fact is, their quality isn’t competitive anymore, so rather than address that, they seem content to discontinue models that should still have a market. Will they even be making the 3b in a few years?
</QUOTE>
The problem with analyzing the business side is that it doesn’t really make sense to be in the business of making top end band instruments.
Is there a market for new 16 variants? One that isn’t already saturated with used by instruments from your own designs?
Is the customer for a new small bore custom really going to be drawn to your designs over new horns from newer manufacturers AND over your old production horns? How many are you going to sell a year? 100? It ain’t 1000. What would you have to spend to make it make sense? And what is the ROI?
Best make sure to not treat it as a business too much or they would just walk away from the whole thing. Just look at the snow mobile market to see that in action.
Cheers,
Andy
To be fair, there are quite a few low-volume models (or just, bad ones) they could cut.[/quote]
I get it they maybe no one wants a Holton TR-150 anymore, but surely a Bach 12 or the different variants of the 16 or 2B would still have a market? The fact is, their quality isn’t competitive anymore, so rather than address that, they seem content to discontinue models that should still have a market. Will they even be making the 3b in a few years?
</QUOTE>
The problem with analyzing the business side is that it doesn’t really make sense to be in the business of making top end band instruments.
Is there a market for new 16 variants? One that isn’t already saturated with used by instruments from your own designs?
Is the customer for a new small bore custom really going to be drawn to your designs over new horns from newer manufacturers AND over your old production horns? How many are you going to sell a year? 100? It ain’t 1000. What would you have to spend to make it make sense? And what is the ROI?
Best make sure to not treat it as a business too much or they would just walk away from the whole thing. Just look at the snow mobile market to see that in action.
Cheers,
Andy
- Slidehamilton
- Posts: 176
- Joined: May 05, 2018
I'm pretty sure that the 12's, 16's and 16M's are still in production. You can buy new ones from various music stores. I have not seen news of them discontinuing these models.
- Leanit
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sep 04, 2018
I can't see how mass production makers can survive at all. Most of the good stuff they've made over the past 100 years is still out there. It's not like they wear out. My trombones are from 1930, 1958, and 1962. Other horns I had were sold to younger players. Maybe it's my perspective from the players I know, but pretty much everybody has the horn they want, don't they? And if they don't, are they ordering new horns from Conn?
When I wanted a "beater" horn to play at car races and stuff, I grabbed a totally useful Olds Special off eBay for $36. Who is shopping Bach or Yamaha for a new mid-level horn when the world is knee-deep in them for much less money?
The car brand Mini is facing this kind of issue. It's a bit of a niche product and essentially everybody that wants one has one. Who do they sell new one to at this point? Mini is on the watch list to be closed down.
When I wanted a "beater" horn to play at car races and stuff, I grabbed a totally useful Olds Special off eBay for $36. Who is shopping Bach or Yamaha for a new mid-level horn when the world is knee-deep in them for much less money?
The car brand Mini is facing this kind of issue. It's a bit of a niche product and essentially everybody that wants one has one. Who do they sell new one to at this point? Mini is on the watch list to be closed down.