Bach factory quality
- bassbone1993
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Feb 10, 2023
Hey all,
Just looking for some guidance. I'm in the position to purchase a new Bach valve section for my artisan tenor. I'm assuming that the rotor section is more likely to be set up correctly. Am I right in thinking along those lines?
I would be purchasing from a reputable store so it will come with a warranty in case something is wrong with it.
Just looking for some guidance. I'm in the position to purchase a new Bach valve section for my artisan tenor. I'm assuming that the rotor section is more likely to be set up correctly. Am I right in thinking along those lines?
I would be purchasing from a reputable store so it will come with a warranty in case something is wrong with it.
- Rrova
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Apr 10, 2018
Some time ago I inquired about an x-wrap at a well known music store. The gist of what they told me was that their technician made some adjustments that made it okay better. So no great or perfect, just better. And the axials are hot or miss. Honestly try before you buy if you can. Good luck!
- bassbone1993
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Feb 10, 2023
Fortunately they have a generous return policy so I could try the rotor or axial first. Just trying to pick some brains before that.
- Blabberbucket
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Oct 09, 2022
Definitely give any of the new Bach horns a through play testing before purchase, and have a good technician go over them if possible. Big concerns I would ask the tech to look for are leaks/compression and that the handslide tubes are straight and parallel.
I have seen some real doozies that should absolutely not have passed QC.
I have seen some real doozies that should absolutely not have passed QC.
- LowBrassJunkie
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Jul 19, 2020
I have not been impressed with anything coming out of that factory for some time, regardless of the instrument.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
I purchased two Demo models because honestly the price was right, they played well, and the savings was enough that I could get things fixed and still come out way below the standard new cost. The last NEW Bach I bought had lots of issues from the factory, and that was long before the strike years ago. The fit and finish is just not as good as it should be for the price they charge.
Don't even get me started on their fixtured slide construction that results in few outer slides that are truly parallel.
Don't even get me started on their fixtured slide construction that results in few outer slides that are truly parallel.
- MrKirk
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mar 02, 2025
I would pile on the try before you buy. That being said, nearly every reputable seller has a trial period. I don't think buying new is necessarily good for anyone from price and quality standpoints.
As far as Bach is concerned, I've purchased 3 demo Bach's in the last 6 months and all of them have had zero issues and all played well.
If your buying a Bach artisan valve section, pick what you want since its modular and then if it has issues with alignment take it to a local repair shop for adjustment if your not comfortable adjusting it yourself.
As far as Bach is concerned, I've purchased 3 demo Bach's in the last 6 months and all of them have had zero issues and all played well.
If your buying a Bach artisan valve section, pick what you want since its modular and then if it has issues with alignment take it to a local repair shop for adjustment if your not comfortable adjusting it yourself.
- bassbone1993
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Feb 10, 2023
For what it's worth, the shop I'd be going through is Virtuosity in Boston. They've done me right in more than a few ways.
- Blabberbucket
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Oct 09, 2022
[quote="bassbone1993"]For what it's worth, the shop I'd be going through is Virtuosity in Boston. They've done me right in more than a few ways.[/quote]
Virtuosity is an excellent shop and I would trust an instrument that they sell to have been gone over properly before purchase.
Virtuosity is an excellent shop and I would trust an instrument that they sell to have been gone over properly before purchase.
- RJMason
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Jun 05, 2018
Def Virtuosity. Any horn Lou Anderson touches becomes magic. He saved my butt a few summers ago. Anytime Iām in Boston I hope a stage hand knocks my horn on the ground so I can have Lou fix it <EMOJI seq="1f602" tseq="1f602">š</EMOJI>
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
How far do resellers go though? Bach factory slides are rarely anywhere near straight/parallel. Do they remount the slide? I would consider that to be a virtually essential operation for any new Bach
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
The Artisan rotor valve with the X wrap is really good.
I recently acquired an A42X. The rotor valve on this horn is the best I've ever played. Not only does it have a short, quick, quiet throw, but the valve notes sound more like non-valve notes than with my Hagmann-equipped 42, which is pretty good for keeping the sound the same across valve and non-valve notes. And the Hagmann's trigger throw is longer.
The slide needed TLC from the store's trombone tech before I was willing to buy the horn. He was successful in quickly making the slide action excellent.
Before I ever played one, I thought the Bach "Artisan" designation was just marketing. No, it isn't. This is a better level of design and build. Some would debate this, probably due to owning examples of the 42B where the build was executed very well, or maybe they bought one of the Artisan model with some issues. I owned a 42B, and I could never be dissuaded from my opinion that the 42B design (it's really the 36B design) is clunky compared to these new horns. I also know that if you have an older 42B with a great slide and the horn has seen you through countless rehearsals and performances, and is still playing great, you might be prone to defend the design.
I recently acquired an A42X. The rotor valve on this horn is the best I've ever played. Not only does it have a short, quick, quiet throw, but the valve notes sound more like non-valve notes than with my Hagmann-equipped 42, which is pretty good for keeping the sound the same across valve and non-valve notes. And the Hagmann's trigger throw is longer.
The slide needed TLC from the store's trombone tech before I was willing to buy the horn. He was successful in quickly making the slide action excellent.
Before I ever played one, I thought the Bach "Artisan" designation was just marketing. No, it isn't. This is a better level of design and build. Some would debate this, probably due to owning examples of the 42B where the build was executed very well, or maybe they bought one of the Artisan model with some issues. I owned a 42B, and I could never be dissuaded from my opinion that the 42B design (it's really the 36B design) is clunky compared to these new horns. I also know that if you have an older 42B with a great slide and the horn has seen you through countless rehearsals and performances, and is still playing great, you might be prone to defend the design.
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
[quote="hornbuilder"]...Bach factory slides are rarely anywhere near straight/parallel. Do they remount the slide? I would consider that to be a virtually essential operation for any new Bach[/quote]
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="LetItSlide"]<QUOTE author="hornbuilder" post_id="272225" time="1743865589" user_id="3205">
...Bach factory slides are rarely anywhere near straight/parallel. Do they remount the slide? I would consider that to be a virtually essential operation for any new Bach[/quote]
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.
</QUOTE>
They no longer have Craftsmen & Women assembling the horns! Piecework at best, so getting as many units out as quickly as possible.....
Fortunately, as I have said many times, Bach still somehow makes great parts! If you can get them.
Just can't assemble them correctly!
Just MY opinion!!
Eric
...Bach factory slides are rarely anywhere near straight/parallel. Do they remount the slide? I would consider that to be a virtually essential operation for any new Bach[/quote]
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.
</QUOTE>
They no longer have Craftsmen & Women assembling the horns! Piecework at best, so getting as many units out as quickly as possible.....
Fortunately, as I have said many times, Bach still somehow makes great parts! If you can get them.
Just can't assemble them correctly!
Just MY opinion!!
Eric
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Bonearzt"]<QUOTE author="LetItSlide" post_id="281215" time="1752521362" user_id="15661">
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.[/quote]
They no longer have Craftsmen & Women assembling the horns! Piecework at best, so getting as many units out as quickly as possible.....
Fortunately, as I have said many times, Bach still somehow makes great parts! If you can get them.
Just can't assemble them correctly!
Just MY opinion!!
Eric
</QUOTE>
Hold on, this is a specific claim about real peopleā¦ do you know this? Iāve been to the factory in the last couple of years; post Covid so not too long. I talked to many people, not all clearly and saw a lot of newer peopleā¦ but EVERY person I talked to had worked there pre-strike. Thatās a lot of time in a manufacturing plant. Iād be curious what their overall seniority list and turnover looks like today; but it was not for lack of having been there for a while (again, probably 2-4 years old info now).
Cheers,
Andy
My own experience validates this. Why Bach can't get this right, I can't fathom. Maybe they don't have "slide tube straightener" people. I mean...it seems like they don't. Or, the people who perform that task just don't get it done right.[/quote]
They no longer have Craftsmen & Women assembling the horns! Piecework at best, so getting as many units out as quickly as possible.....
Fortunately, as I have said many times, Bach still somehow makes great parts! If you can get them.
Just can't assemble them correctly!
Just MY opinion!!
Eric
</QUOTE>
Hold on, this is a specific claim about real peopleā¦ do you know this? Iāve been to the factory in the last couple of years; post Covid so not too long. I talked to many people, not all clearly and saw a lot of newer peopleā¦ but EVERY person I talked to had worked there pre-strike. Thatās a lot of time in a manufacturing plant. Iād be curious what their overall seniority list and turnover looks like today; but it was not for lack of having been there for a while (again, probably 2-4 years old info now).
Cheers,
Andy
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Hi Andy, I'll rephrase to redact the "Craftsperson" as yes they probably are capable.
But I will stand by my opinion about speed over quality.
Eric
But I will stand by my opinion about speed over quality.
Eric
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Bonearzt"]Hi Andy, I'll rephrase to redact the "Craftsperson" as yes they probably are capable.
But I will stand by my opinion about speed over quality.
Eric[/quote]
And that is always a valid concern for any production facility. Really easy to say stop and make the quality, hard to actually make that happen.
My issue with the assembly quality is more due to the quality of their fixture design and how they are being asked to use themā¦ those little pictures and videos from Matt (M&W) or from OMalley are so much more robust and clever. Between bad tools and almost no measurement verificationā¦ you get what you measure and they certainly count production.
Cheers,
Andy
But I will stand by my opinion about speed over quality.
Eric[/quote]
And that is always a valid concern for any production facility. Really easy to say stop and make the quality, hard to actually make that happen.
My issue with the assembly quality is more due to the quality of their fixture design and how they are being asked to use themā¦ those little pictures and videos from Matt (M&W) or from OMalley are so much more robust and clever. Between bad tools and almost no measurement verificationā¦ you get what you measure and they certainly count production.
Cheers,
Andy