Flexibility in pedal range
- sirisobhakya
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
I just joined a short-term semi-amateur trombone-only ensemble, with concert in June. The music is interesting, but the arranger can be said to be quite “overconfident” with the members’ skill level. 1st and 2nd lines consistently use tenor clef, and goes as high as high C and beyond, continuously. Even some professionals who join us complain sometimes.
For bass, I have one piece (The Incredibles Medley) that had the following notes, half time, half note = 100 BPM.
(If the photo is not visible please see in this link.[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kKA_3B ... p=drivesdk">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kKA_3BjmPLJvYuVyy7aeGJKwgzPVg13t/view?usp=drivesdk</LINK_TEXT>)
I can play pedal F just fine, if a bit clunky at times, but moving up and down the octave in rapid successions absolutely kills me.
Any suggestion on flexibility exercise? Your help would be highly appreciated.
For bass, I have one piece (The Incredibles Medley) that had the following notes, half time, half note = 100 BPM.
(If the photo is not visible please see in this link.
I can play pedal F just fine, if a bit clunky at times, but moving up and down the octave in rapid successions absolutely kills me.
Any suggestion on flexibility exercise? Your help would be highly appreciated.
- mikerspencer
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Jul 01, 2022
I suspect there's lots of us who're keen to know the answer to this! My guess is: lots of lip slurs in and out of the pedal register.
James Markey has a series of videos on developing the low register, which are well regarded: <YOUTUBE id="0zbfyhzRmF8">https://youtu.be/0zbfyhzRmF8</YOUTUBE>
James Markey has a series of videos on developing the low register, which are well regarded: <YOUTUBE id="0zbfyhzRmF8">https://youtu.be/0zbfyhzRmF8</YOUTUBE>
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
I'm not seeing the image of your example, unfortunately.
The kind of flexibility you're talking about is one of my big weaknesses on bass trombone. I know that I have a major embouchure shift that breaks right around where pedal A is, which makes it tough to slot in large intervals that go above and below this note. I find it tougher to cleanly slur up from below this note than to slur down from above.
The kind of flexibility you're talking about is one of my big weaknesses on bass trombone. I know that I have a major embouchure shift that breaks right around where pedal A is, which makes it tough to slot in large intervals that go above and below this note. I find it tougher to cleanly slur up from below this note than to slur down from above.
- Wilco
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Mar 24, 2019
You could skip some notes if that helps…
With an inline bass, try to play the pedal F with the 2nd valve. Usually this F will be a lot easier to play that way.
And to keep the flow you could play the low F the same way, then you would have nice flow with the low C inbewteen
With an inline bass, try to play the pedal F with the 2nd valve. Usually this F will be a lot easier to play that way.
And to keep the flow you could play the low F the same way, then you would have nice flow with the low C inbewteen
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
The bass trombone would be a popular instrument if people knew how much they were hearing it in movie scores.
I noodled a bit with this and got it to the point where I had the notes going at tempo and felt like I could put it together decently with time put toward it.
Here is what I did.
Start with the most difficult fragment first and do it in a loop like in line 1. If C to F is too big a leap at first, do that rhythm with an A and an F until you have that solid. Then change it to Bb and F. Then C and F.
(If getting the pedal F to speak is a problem, practice just that rhythm in a loop... all on pedal F.)
When you have that two-note interval working, add the note above and do that in a loop, like in line 2.
When that three-note bit pattern is working, add the note above that, like in line 3.
And so on.
<ATTACHMENT filename="Incredipedal.png" index="0">[attachment=0]Incredipedal.png</ATTACHMENT>
I noodled a bit with this and got it to the point where I had the notes going at tempo and felt like I could put it together decently with time put toward it.
Here is what I did.
Start with the most difficult fragment first and do it in a loop like in line 1. If C to F is too big a leap at first, do that rhythm with an A and an F until you have that solid. Then change it to Bb and F. Then C and F.
(If getting the pedal F to speak is a problem, practice just that rhythm in a loop... all on pedal F.)
When you have that two-note interval working, add the note above and do that in a loop, like in line 2.
When that three-note bit pattern is working, add the note above that, like in line 3.
And so on.
<ATTACHMENT filename="Incredipedal.png" index="0">
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I'm assuming it's the minor ostinato starting on pedal F? That's tough for most players.
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
Roberts way of breaking it up in pieces is a very fine move.
In case it will not work out for you with sufficient confidence, I would put the pedal F in all places one octave up. Better be confident on time and in tune on all F's than necessarily do it in the written octave.
In case it will not work out for you with sufficient confidence, I would put the pedal F in all places one octave up. Better be confident on time and in tune on all F's than necessarily do it in the written octave.
- GGJazz
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Jul 30, 2022
Hi all.
I think that if one want to be able to play in this low pedal range , there are not tricks or shortcut.
One have to be able to connect these pedal tones with the others ranges of the horn ( low , medium , medium high , high ) .
So , of course no shifting at all , unless for extreme loud dynamics .
Then , we have to practice arpeggios , scales , intervals , etc , both legato and staccato ; first within an octave , then on two octaves ; starting from the top note , going to the bottom ; then starting on the bottom note , going to the top ; etc . In my opinion , as general range , may be better to work between high Bb/C and pedal E / Eb .
Then I suggest that we have to incorporate this skill into the music , so we have to practice things as Bordogni down an octave and more ; etudes as Kopprasch for Tuba , etc.
It takes time , as to be able to play in the high register .
Regards
Giancarlo
I think that if one want to be able to play in this low pedal range , there are not tricks or shortcut.
One have to be able to connect these pedal tones with the others ranges of the horn ( low , medium , medium high , high ) .
So , of course no shifting at all , unless for extreme loud dynamics .
Then , we have to practice arpeggios , scales , intervals , etc , both legato and staccato ; first within an octave , then on two octaves ; starting from the top note , going to the bottom ; then starting on the bottom note , going to the top ; etc . In my opinion , as general range , may be better to work between high Bb/C and pedal E / Eb .
Then I suggest that we have to incorporate this skill into the music , so we have to practice things as Bordogni down an octave and more ; etudes as Kopprasch for Tuba , etc.
It takes time , as to be able to play in the high register .
Regards
Giancarlo
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Some years ago I bought a pedal note method book by one of the Los Angeles luminaries.
His super-secret plan? To get better at playing pedal notes... play more pedal notes! And lots of them.
He had you starting out on pedal D. I couldn't even play the first note in the book! To this day i have no idea what was in the rest of the book because I never got past the first page. Some day...
Play yourself 10 pedal Fs. They won't all be the same and some will be better than others. Note what you did differently on the better ones and try to do more of that on the next 10 pedal Fs. Repeat.
That is the learning loop for any new skill.
For me, the paradox of these very low pedal notes is dropping my jaw as low as possible while trying to keep as much lip in the mouthpiece as possible.
It's like trying to say a very deep "toe".
His super-secret plan? To get better at playing pedal notes... play more pedal notes! And lots of them.
He had you starting out on pedal D. I couldn't even play the first note in the book! To this day i have no idea what was in the rest of the book because I never got past the first page. Some day...
Play yourself 10 pedal Fs. They won't all be the same and some will be better than others. Note what you did differently on the better ones and try to do more of that on the next 10 pedal Fs. Repeat.
That is the learning loop for any new skill.
For me, the paradox of these very low pedal notes is dropping my jaw as low as possible while trying to keep as much lip in the mouthpiece as possible.
It's like trying to say a very deep "toe".
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]Some years ago I bought a pedal note method book by one of the Los Angeles luminaries.
His super-secret plan? To get better at playing pedal notes... play more pedal notes! And lots of them.
He had you starting out on pedal D. I couldn't even play the first note in the book! To this day i have no idea what was in the rest of the book because I never got past the first page. Some day...
Play yourself 10 pedal Fs. They won't all be the same and some will be better than others. Note what you did differently on the better ones and try to do more of that on the next 10 pedal Fs. Repeat.
That is the learning loop for any new skill.
For me, the paradox of these very low pedal notes is dropping my jaw as low as possible while trying to keep as much lip in the mouthpiece as possible.
It's like trying to say a very deep "toe".[/quote]
I will say there is another way. Do flexibility exercises from high Bb down to the pedals. Be as firm with your embouchure all the way down as the high Bb. Glizz it down without the slide if needed. Then it's much more easier to get up again. Yes there is some changes but be firm is the clue. The pedals is not fare a way. Keep trying!
Leif
His super-secret plan? To get better at playing pedal notes... play more pedal notes! And lots of them.
He had you starting out on pedal D. I couldn't even play the first note in the book! To this day i have no idea what was in the rest of the book because I never got past the first page. Some day...
Play yourself 10 pedal Fs. They won't all be the same and some will be better than others. Note what you did differently on the better ones and try to do more of that on the next 10 pedal Fs. Repeat.
That is the learning loop for any new skill.
For me, the paradox of these very low pedal notes is dropping my jaw as low as possible while trying to keep as much lip in the mouthpiece as possible.
It's like trying to say a very deep "toe".[/quote]
I will say there is another way. Do flexibility exercises from high Bb down to the pedals. Be as firm with your embouchure all the way down as the high Bb. Glizz it down without the slide if needed. Then it's much more easier to get up again. Yes there is some changes but be firm is the clue. The pedals is not fare a way. Keep trying!
Leif
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
I’m in awe of bass trombone players who have tremendous facility below the bass clef, all the way down to the two-valve pedals. It takes a lot of work to develop that. I love the sounds of good bass trombone playing and I’m always listening for it in movies.
- sirisobhakya
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
Thank you so much for the recommendations. Now I can play the passage, not very well, but at least it sounds like music.
The twist is, the song as a whole has high chance to be cancelled altogether due to inadequate practice time left. Good for me, I think…
The twist is, the song as a whole has high chance to be cancelled altogether due to inadequate practice time left. Good for me, I think…