Why not these syllables for triple tonguing?
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Tu-Ku-Tu; Tu-Ku-Tu. Instead of Tu-Tu-Ku; Tu-Tu-Ku. The former seems to mirror the sequence of double tonguing more closely. At least at the onset of each triplet.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Both are viable, in the average "fanfare" type triple tonguing found in music, the 2nd is much easier to get the right style.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I can only do tu-ku-tu ku-tu-ku tu-ku-tu, which is just double tonguing but in a triplet pattern. I don't know why people want to double up the "tu" sound because now you're limited by your single tongue speed
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="cigmar"]The former seems to mirror the sequence of double tonguing more closely.[/quote]
But it's not doublets anymore. You're needing to do triplets.
The Summer after High School all i did was practice triple tonguing in the Arban's, thinking that was the most important skill a trombone player could have...
ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk...
... and that's all i can do to this day.
On paper, they should all be equally valid, and I'm sure I've seen methods that admit either way, but ttk is probably the easiest to have success with and so it is taught.
But it's not doublets anymore. You're needing to do triplets.
The Summer after High School all i did was practice triple tonguing in the Arban's, thinking that was the most important skill a trombone player could have...
ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk ttk...
... and that's all i can do to this day.
On paper, they should all be equally valid, and I'm sure I've seen methods that admit either way, but ttk is probably the easiest to have success with and so it is taught.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Whatever someone learns first generally works best. It doesn't really matter which it is as long as you can make it sound relatively equal.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I find that ttk works well for me until I get down around second line Bb, then tkt seems to work better. Not sure why.
- GGJazz
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Jul 30, 2022
Hi all .
I personally am playing triple tongue with TTK , but I think that some players like to use TKT .
I prefer TTK because , being the K the last note of the group of three notes , it is better suitable as "mental identification" of this rhytmic figure ( the triplet) .
Of course , this is just the way I find easier for me .
For the sextuplets ( group of six notes subdivided on 2+2+2) I am using TKTKTK .
Regards
Giancarlo
I personally am playing triple tongue with TTK , but I think that some players like to use TKT .
I prefer TTK because , being the K the last note of the group of three notes , it is better suitable as "mental identification" of this rhytmic figure ( the triplet) .
Of course , this is just the way I find easier for me .
For the sextuplets ( group of six notes subdivided on 2+2+2) I am using TKTKTK .
Regards
Giancarlo
- Kdanielsen
- Posts: 609
- Joined: Jul 28, 2019
Literally the only time I’ve ever felt that TTK was hands down better than my usual TKT is those triplets at the end of Das Rheingold. I’m not sure why.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
For me I tkt was just natural. Eventually I did work on ttk because it gave me a better single triplet upbeat in very detached situations, like those Mahler minor-major 7 arpeggios, with the downbeat landing cleaner and stronger. But I could never chain ttk 's, just feels extremely unnatural to me and I trip over my own tongue, whereas tkt posed no such problem.
I haven't hat to play this kind of triple tonguing in years though. Nowadays with what I do, if I ever (rarely) need very rapidly-tongued triplets, I use my triple doodle. Te-dl-le te-dl-le
I haven't hat to play this kind of triple tonguing in years though. Nowadays with what I do, if I ever (rarely) need very rapidly-tongued triplets, I use my triple doodle. Te-dl-le te-dl-le
- bwilliams
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Apr 25, 2018
I use TTK because that's what you are "supposed" to do.
I was not a rebellious child.
You can use whatever syllable you want.
I was not a rebellious child.
You can use whatever syllable you want.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Flute players are taught TKT TKT - or at least that's what my flutist wife tells me. And the big Rampal method book prescribes spending serious time practicing triple tonguing at least three hours a day for tongue dexterity.
I have a student right now who played flute pretty seriously before switching to bass trombone, and he does that sequence very well.
I learned to triple with TTK, but more and more often find myself using a double tongue pattern with rhythmic emphasis, even sometimes ending with an accented K on a downbeat.
I have a student right now who played flute pretty seriously before switching to bass trombone, and he does that sequence very well.
I learned to triple with TTK, but more and more often find myself using a double tongue pattern with rhythmic emphasis, even sometimes ending with an accented K on a downbeat.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]I can only do tu-ku-tu ku-tu-ku tu-ku-tu, which is just double tonguing but in a triplet pattern. I don't know why people want to double up the "tu" sound because now you're limited by your single tongue speed[/quote]
Well...yes and no. I can single tongue faster if I slip in a K every once in a while.
Well...yes and no. I can single tongue faster if I slip in a K every once in a while.
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Thanks for all the replies so far. I assumed Tu-Tu-Ku was the norm, didn't realize there were also proponents of the Tu-Ku-Tu sequence. I myself have been using the Tu-Ku-Tu and was wondering if I should switch to the other method. Think I'll stick with what I've been doing and develop that.
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
Coming from flute, Tu Ku Tu is preferred, by me, even on bass bone, but most often its more Du Gu Du in a softer articulation. Makes it easier to keep the air flowing, especially usefully in the lower register, I think. The hard consonant bursts are not beneficial to start low tones, IMHO.