Yamaha Bach Copies?
- Floridatrombonekenneth
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Oct 22, 2020
I like to use a solid back up horn as my "school horn" when teaching, and am in the market for a new one.
I am seeing (maybe noticing is the better word) more and more great looking older yamaha's on ebay for even better prices.
I have seen a lot of YSL 648's and they seem to be a Conn 88H copy, and the Ysl-455g is a 36 copy (kind of?). So my question is, were there any Bach copies prior to the Xeno line?
I am seeing (maybe noticing is the better word) more and more great looking older yamaha's on ebay for even better prices.
I have seen a lot of YSL 648's and they seem to be a Conn 88H copy, and the Ysl-455g is a 36 copy (kind of?). So my question is, were there any Bach copies prior to the Xeno line?
- nateaff
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Jan 23, 2024
I haven't checked if anything fits other than the slide tenon (it does match Bach) but my 613H feels exactly the way a Bach 50 should. It's got way better rotors though.
On paper and how it feels the 613H is a pretty close match, the 612 and 613 that preceded it aren't even in the same universe as Bachs though.
I'd also probably disagree that there's ever been a Yamaha 36 copy. I play a lot on my 645 and it's got a wider bell flare, two piece bell, round crook, lighter build... basically nothing in common with Bach at all
On paper and how it feels the 613H is a pretty close match, the 612 and 613 that preceded it aren't even in the same universe as Bachs though.
I'd also probably disagree that there's ever been a Yamaha 36 copy. I play a lot on my 645 and it's got a wider bell flare, two piece bell, round crook, lighter build... basically nothing in common with Bach at all
- Floridatrombonekenneth
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Oct 22, 2020
[quote="nateaff"]there's ever been a Yamaha 36 copy. I play a lot on my 645 and it's got a wider bell flare, two piece bell, round crook, lighter build... basically nothing in common with Bach at all[/quote]
Thanks for the info.
I have seen seller's compare the specs on a 645 to a 36, but have never tried one to see for myself.
Thanks for the info.
I have seen seller's compare the specs on a 645 to a 36, but have never tried one to see for myself.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.
- Floridatrombonekenneth
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Oct 22, 2020
[quote="Burgerbob"]Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.[/quote]
Thanks! I have been seeing so many cheaper Yamahas I was hoping I could snag one as a Bach style backup.
Thanks! I have been seeing so many cheaper Yamahas I was hoping I could snag one as a Bach style backup.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Put a real bach bell on one and that might be a different result... I need to try that on the more modern horns.
- nateaff
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Jan 23, 2024
[quote="Burgerbob"]Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.[/quote]
The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.
Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.
The best Bach backup is another Bach ;)
The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.
Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.
The best Bach backup is another Bach ;)
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="nateaff"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="274764" time="1746222192" user_id="3131">
Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.[/quote]
The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.
Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.
The best Bach backup is another Bach ;)
</QUOTE>
They play great, but they don't have the sound. The Bach part is missing.
Basses after the 613H, wide slide xenos. None of them are close though, imo.[/quote]
The only wide slide Xeno that exists is the 882OR. They're basically the perfect trombone if instead of a Bach 42 you want 105% of a Bach 42.
Everything is just a little bigger, a little heavier, and a little more bass-y. I think they're a tad heavy for principle playing, but an ideal 2nd chair instrument.
The best Bach backup is another Bach ;)
</QUOTE>
They play great, but they don't have the sound. The Bach part is missing.
- sirisobhakya
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Jun 11, 2018
If you want a Bach, you have to buy a Bach.
I have tried 882OR and Bach 42O back to back. Different, but each has its own advantage. Yes the Xeno are “Bach-inspired”, but I don’t think Yamaha wanted to copy the sound. They seem to just use the “concept” of heavier horn.
For me the OR is too “euphonium-ish”. Too dark, too much halo but not enough edge and core.
I have tried 882OR and Bach 42O back to back. Different, but each has its own advantage. Yes the Xeno are “Bach-inspired”, but I don’t think Yamaha wanted to copy the sound. They seem to just use the “concept” of heavier horn.
For me the OR is too “euphonium-ish”. Too dark, too much halo but not enough edge and core.
- CuriousKen
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Jul 04, 2021
The Doug Yeo bass sure feels, plays, and sounds like a Bach 50 (but with better valves). I have a Bach 50 and the Yeo bass. When I got the Yeo my Bach was set up with dependent rotors (by Benn Hanson) with the rotors bored. If the grips weren't slightly different I wouldn't be able to tell the horns apart. I've assumed Doug Yeo started his horn at Yamaha with his best/favorite Bach and Yamaha ended up making the best production Bach 50.