The Doug Elliott for French Horn?

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JTeagarden
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb 24, 2025

by JTeagarden »

My son is a horn player, and is running into equipment/embouchure issues.

Is there anyone out there who is the equivalent of Doug Elliott, but for French horn?

Someone who can give a lesson to assess embouchure tendencies, and recommend corresponding FH mouthpieces that work with his embouchure type?
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

I have taught plenty of horn players. And trumpet, and tuba.

Horn players are usually totally amazed at what a different approach can do for them, since traditional horn teaching is pretty inflexible toward new ideas, or anything different that what's traditional.
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mrdeacon
Posts: 1225
Joined: May 08, 2018

by mrdeacon »

In addition to Doug I would also recommend Brian Keegan. He’s a forum member here.

He studied with Doug for many years and also plays French horn. Brian is great and I can’t recommend him enough!
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JTeagarden
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb 24, 2025

by JTeagarden »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]I have taught plenty of horn players. And trumpet, and tuba.

Horn players are usually totally amazed at what a different approach can do for them, since traditional horn teaching is pretty inflexible toward new ideas, or anything different that what's traditional.[/quote]

Awesome Doug, are you able to make suggestions regarding mouthpieces, at least point him in the right direction?
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

I can make suggestions in a general sense, but I have not paid much attention to horn mouthpieces.
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JTeagarden
Posts: 625
Joined: Feb 24, 2025

by JTeagarden »

We can take it from there, if you can speak to things like larger or smaller cup or rim...
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ghmerrill
Posts: 2193
Joined: Apr 02, 2018

by ghmerrill »

You might contact Phyillis Stork (a long time horn player and mouthpiece consultant) at Stork Custom Mouthpieces: https://storkcustom.com/). She offers online sessions of various types: <LINK_TEXT text="https://storkcustom.com/mouthpiece-cons ... aPB_W0SGip">https://storkcustom.com/mouthpiece-consultation-with-phyllis-stork/?srsltid=AfmBOooXjPkshvVxKfE71xA-0XmObhAITFm5VVw3XHvNE0aPB_W0SGip</LINK_TEXT>
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elmsandr
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by elmsandr »

For a source of similar Horn Component style mouthpieces, Houghton Horns has a pretty large offering.

Cheers,

Andy
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Finetales
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Finetales »

Osmun also has 2-piece horn mouthpieces, with many more options than the Houghton pieces. I've been meaning to try both of them myself.

2-piece horn mouthpieces often use the same Giardinelli threads as well, so you can mix and match.
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

My French horn playing son was directed by his teacher to Marcinkiewicz, who provided a mouthpiece he was quite happy with.

Unfortunately he no longer plays horn regularly. :weep:
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BrassSection
Posts: 424
Joined: May 11, 2022

by BrassSection »

Question for Doug:

I’m low brass by birth, trumpet by necessity. Question is French horn vs trumpet Embouchure that much different? Infrequently play French horn, maybe once every 4 to 6 weeks. (Straight F single horn) I can pick it up and rip off nearly 3 octaves with no sweat. Trumpet played weekly, with maybe 1 or 2 practices during the week. TC music, G above the staff not a problem, but gotta dedicate a week of high note practice to get the high C back. No problems trombone or euph getting up high anytime I want. Usually want more than need.

French horn using Bach 7. Lose range high and low with 11 or 12

Trumpet using Bach 12. Lose range and sound quality with Holton MF3 OEM MP
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

Horn embouchure is pretty much the same as trumpet in the higher range, but different because of what has to happen to get into the lower range. Horn range is the same as trombone range, and the same length of tubing as an F attachment trombone. But since the horn mouthpiece doesn't have the trombone's width of lip vibration, it substitutes an in-and-out amplitude of lip action for slower vibration to play lower range, with a deep cup that allows that to happen - and that action can't happen in a shallower trumpet mouthpiece.
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timothy42b
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mar 27, 2018

by timothy42b »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]But since the horn mouthpiece doesn't have the trombone's width of lip vibration, it substitutes an in-and-out amplitude of lip action for slower vibration to play lower range, with a deep cup that allows that to happen - and that action can't happen in a shallower trumpet mouthpiece.[/quote]

That is fascinating. I never would have guessed.

That might work on a jHorn too, I notice the one youtube video that actually sounds good is using a horn mouthpiece. Low range is a real struggle on that stuffy thing.
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

<YOUTUBE id="-DBurO6Xqeo">https://youtu.be/-DBurO6Xqeo?si=9HWiyYKUnoznzYdI</YOUTUBE>
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BrassSection
Posts: 424
Joined: May 11, 2022

by BrassSection »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Horn embouchure is pretty much the same as trumpet in the higher range, but different because of what has to happen to get into the lower range. Horn range is the same as trombone range, and the same length of tubing as an F attachment trombone. But since the horn mouthpiece doesn't have the trombone's width of lip vibration, it substitutes an in-and-out amplitude of lip action for slower vibration to play lower range, with a deep cup that allows that to happen - and that action can't happen in a shallower trumpet mouthpiece.[/quote]

Very informative, thanks. Explains why I use very light pressure on low range on the horn. Let’s see, high easy on horn, not so easy on trumpet. Sounds like I need to pay some more attention on trumpet Embouchure! Thank Mr Farkas for horn start.
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tbdana
Posts: 1928
Joined: Apr 08, 2023

by tbdana »

Man, I just love the thread title. And I'm a little envious. I've never been the Dana Douglas of anything. And here's Doug being a symbol translating over different instruments. Dude, you've made it. :)
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

I enjoy when Google Maps says "You have arrived."